Balkan Wall Lizard & stuff

Russia, Ukraine, Moldova, Belarus

Re: Balkan Wall Lizard & stuff

Postby Rok Grzelj » Wed Jun 15, 2011 4:38 pm

Similar situation here....V.berus from SW part of Slovenia is morphologicaly similar to bosniensis(not all snake in the population...some look like "normal" berus)...on the other hand the Croatians says that their berus from NW Croatia is genetically V.berus berus.
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Re: Balkan Wall Lizard & stuff

Postby Borji Heras » Wed Jun 15, 2011 4:58 pm

Thanks Jeroen , i had seen both your trip´s pics and Kooiplek´s , i knew that was nikolskii since Alexandru Strugariu´s paper sais that nikolskii-like vipers inhabit barnova forests in Romania , and Oleksander Zinenko told me that Vipera berus (nikolskii) inhabits Moldova too ,with intergradation zone in Ukraine where intermediate forms with vipera berus berus have been found.

Most of the autors describe Nikolskii as a subespecific form of vipera berus , altough the situation is still unclear i think they have many differences with beru berus , for example venom-colour, body size and shape, most of melanistic populations , yellowish-green tail , newborns have a characteristic colour , and the habitat is drier.

Maybe someone can help me with a doubt :
if a SPECIE to be called "specie" must be reproductively isolated ,why species like Vipera ammodytes and Vipera aspis in the Tyrol can Hybridate? i can understand this with berus berus and berus nikolskii , because they are more similar and closely related , they have not been isolated for so much time and they share similar characteristics, but what about aspis-ammodytes , aspis -latastei , or ammodytes-berus intermediate forms?

(I´m sorry,my english is not the best hope you understand it :lol: )
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Re: Balkan Wall Lizard & stuff

Postby Jeroen Speybroeck » Wed Jun 15, 2011 5:56 pm

In theory, ammodytes x aspis hybrids are sterile, or reproductivity should at least be reduced in that offspring generation. But I'm sure for instance Mario will have more intellegent things to say about that.

BTW - we're running huuuuuuuugely off topic...
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Re: Balkan Wall Lizard & stuff

Postby Borji Heras » Wed Jun 15, 2011 6:13 pm

Jeroen Speybroeck wrote:In theory, ammodytes x aspis hybrids are sterile, or reproductivity should at least be reduced in that offspring generation. But I'm sure for instance Mario will have more intellegent things to say about that.

BTW - we're running huuuuuuuugely off topic...

yes...i´m gonna create a topic (i´m sorry Vlad)

- I still keep the question, what kind of species have you found in Moldova? any renardi/berus nikolskii??
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Re: Balkan Wall Lizard & stuff

Postby Vlad Cioflec » Wed Jun 15, 2011 7:29 pm

No need to apologize you guys!

I`m no expert on the berus complex, but i did see both forms in Romania, so if they decide to split nikoskii from berus, i have them checked on the list. ;)

When it comes to Modavia, the things change a bit. I herp in this `country` for about five years, and although i`ve seen most herps and did some range extensions for some species, the vipers did not cross my path so far.

It`s not easy to find good habitats where i won`t get arested for not being able to make myself clear about my intentions. In the west there is lots of cigarette smuggling; in the east there is a separatist region (Transnistria) and they have many guns! In the south and north there are the ukrainean borders, and i speak no russian whatsoever. As you can imagine, nice snake habitats are just in these regions...

Another problem is habitat modification - the steppe is turned into crops, and the mature oak forests are replaced with Acacia ... I hate Acacia plantations, and they are just a over the place!

It` is forbidden to go into the main adder reserves without a written permision. So far i did not get any reply to a the e-mails i`ve sent requesting one... And to top it all, acording to recent studies, the introduction of renardi failed, and all the known modavica popuations dissapeared along with their habitats.

But i`m not giving up that easy!
:mrgreen:
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Re: Balkan Wall Lizard & stuff

Postby Borji Heras » Wed Jun 15, 2011 7:45 pm

very interesting Vlad ....i didnt know anything about Renardi´s introduction...this is new for me , and about moldavicas....well....i think that most of us could expect it , the last remains are in Romania , and with unclear future...
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Re: Balkan Wall Lizard & stuff

Postby Vlad Cioflec » Thu Jun 16, 2011 11:17 am

Another morning spent in the field delivered something worth posting. Sorry it`s not a herp, but i`m taking about a lifer here! :D
And not just any lifer, but the rare and endangered ( at least in Romania) Bluethroat. :mrgreen: As if this wasn`t cool enough, this is the first time the species has been seen breeding in Modavia. :!:
Distribution.JPG
Distribution.JPG (29.67 KiB) Viewed 4292 times

We got close enough to see the white spot that places it in the Luscinia svecica cyanecula subspecies. My binocuars are good, but my camera has it`s limits. :P
lus.sve.JPG

lus sve.JPG


Cheers!
Vlad
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Re: Balkan Wall Lizard & stuff

Postby Paul Lambourne » Thu Jun 16, 2011 1:17 pm

Nice tick Vlad.. not an easy bird to add to your list..congratulations :D I saw mine on a very early and very cold morning in Finland..

Now concentrate man..back to the herps.. I want viper pics!!! :D

Cheers Paul
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Re: Balkan Wall Lizard & stuff

Postby Vlad Cioflec » Fri Jun 17, 2011 1:30 pm

Today i woke up at the crack of dawn and decided to go snake-hunting and pay little atention to any other creatures, as requested. ;) After a very long and boring drive we finally arrived in some nice looking habitat.
DSCF4071.JPG

DSCF4082.JPG

I am proud to say i saw three snake species in an hour. That is nothing to sneez at; well, at east by modavian standards. :P
One skittish Grass Snake dived into the water and a big Caspian Whip Snake dissapeared into its hiding hole... :roll: :lol:
DSCF4081.JPG
D. caspius tail

DSCF4085.JPG
It was pretty big too

But this beautiful Dice Snake did not get away! :D
DSCF4075.JPG

DSCF4079.JPG

We`ll see what tomorrow brings!
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Re: Balkan Wall Lizard & stuff

Postby Borji Heras » Fri Jun 17, 2011 2:23 pm

nice founds , seems that Dolichophis caspius is quite common in Romania/Moldavia
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