Karpathos Winter-Snake ??

[Matt Wilson]

I pretty much agree with everything you said there Jeroen. Clearly there is no problem to differentiate between an adult caspius and jugularis, but I can understand how the juveniles can cause problems.

By the way, looking back at that report made me remember what a crappy photographer I used to be, with a stupid old school film camera! But at least then I didn't worry about damaging the camera to dive for a fast moving snake Which sadly isn't the case now...I do remember being very surprised when I found that big caspius sat on the road, since it was never mentioned in literature up until that trip and a subsequent one by some Dutch or Belgian guys, can't remember who

[Jeroen Speybroeck]

Thanks, Mario!!!

So merely an "old school" split (in a non-peer reviewed publication, based on morphology (in fact not even that but just colours) only)? Can you perhaps think of any paper offering proof for restricted gene flow? Or, what happens where both species meet on the mainland?

I find it hard to believe hybrids would never occur - since they are bound to be closely related, you would expect some hybridisation (be it with reduced fertility at the least), no? No captive breeding data?

Not saying that I'm doing anything but raising a weak hypothesis that those colours mean nothing (as species-level indicators), I believe the lack of (recorded) hybrids is obviously common in cases where cross-breeding delivers animals with a phenotype of both or either of the parents, rather than ones with intermediate features. Too lazy to find one, but there should be plenty of examples for that, no?

@ Matt: at least you've got the pictures to proof it !

[Mario Schweiger]

In 2004 Nagy et al. proofed and confirmed Baran´s (1976) and Schätti´s (1988) split!

Nagy, Z.T., R. Lawson, U, Joger & M. Wink (2004): Molecular systematics of racers, whipsnakes and relatives (Reptilia: Colubridae) using
mitochandrial and nuclear markers. - J. Zool. Syst. Evol. Research 42: 223 - 233. PDF-0414 in DB.

By my own observations in SW-Turkey I also found only "true" species (at least the adults).
Although even the youngsters may be distinguished easily (belly with dark spots in jugularis, uniform in schmidti and caspius), it would be very hard to tell, if one of them might be an integrade (for the lumbers) or hybrid (for the splitters)

Mario

[Ilias Strachinis]

very interesting!
I think it's possible to meet both species on other islands too (those have not been searched very well).

[Jeroen Speybroeck]

In 2004 Nagy et al. proofed and confirmed Baran´s (1976) and Schätti´s (1988) split!

Hmmm... I don't think I agree. Where/How do they proof reproductive isolation or restricted gene flow between caspius/jugularis/schmidti? There's only one sample for each. I think they only demonstrate monophyly of the Dolichophis genus. Imho, this paper deals with phylogenetic relationships, not with delimitation of species (or the confirmation of it).

[Mario Schweiger]

Although it is known, both Dolichophis occur on Kos island, I came across an interesting paper, published - not easy to find.

Cattaneo, A. (2005): OBSERVATIONS ON THE HERPETOFAUNA OF THE GREEK ISLAND OF KOS (SOUTHERN SPORADES) WITH AN UNPUBLISHED CASE OF MICRO-INSULAR SYMPATRY OF TWO CLOSELY RELATED COLUBRIDAE SPECIES: HIEROPHIS CASPIUS (GMELIN) AND HIEROPHIS JUGULARIS (L.). -- Atti Mus. Stor. nat. Maremma, 21: 79-91.
Its in Italian language with english summary:

Observations on the herpetofauna of the greek island of Kos are reported in the present paper. The presence of Hierophis caspius is reported and an hypothesis is presented on the spatial and trophic divergence between this species and closely related Hierophis jugularis. On Kos, the population of the last species does not seem to present young/adult dichromatism and the main ventral colour stays red at all ages; the typical “asianus” phenotype thus was not found on the island. Both H. caspius and H. jugularis specimens caught showed the habit of swallowing parts of the nests of the rodents preyed upon. H. jugularis was observed following the perimeter of man-made structures (low walls, fences or man-made paths) to fi nd a mating partner. The presence of Bufo bufo on the island is reported and the local population of Lacerta trilineata is attributed to the cariensis Peters subspecies. This big lizard as well as Pseudopus apodus are both rare on Kos and thus should be ecologically compatible.

You may find the paper in the DB, PDF-3837

Mario