Spring in Croatia

[Berislav Horvatic]

Ah, too late, Boris was faster...
No need to google the thing, it's already here:

[EDIT by Admin] Please no links to literature for everybody!
fieldherping.eu members may grab it from DB = PDF-1780 in DB [end EDIT]


But my question remains, it's a matter of principle.

[Jeroen Speybroeck]

what do YOU think about publicly answering this question?

Random thoughts as they come to mind:
* caspius is not ursinii (species level consideration)
* Croatian caspius are at species range margins, which always deserve special care (population level consideration)
* I don't know the status of those populations (population level consideration)
* papers are out, so anyone can find them <=> every time some piece of info is repeated over the internet, the word spreads more and more... ("moral" issue)

As a general rule, I would not answer this, at least not in a public forum, regardless of the fact that it is already "out there". There are other examples of papers giving specific coordinates for sites of threatened (sub)species and morphs of European herps, yet I would rather not be the one offering them on a silver platter on a public webpage.

Then again, I'm highly inconsistent [searching for smilie with clown's nose...]. Who knows what'll I do tomorrow...?

[Jeroen Speybroeck]

There's a big difference between publishing citing for a certain area and literally providing lat/lon data.

[Berislav Horvatic]

As a general rule, I would not answer this, at least not in a public forum, regardless of the fact that it is already "out there". There are other examples of papers giving specific coordinates for sites of threatened (sub)species and morphs of European herps, yet I would rather not be the one offering them on a silver platter on a public webpage.

Thanks. You worded my own thoughts so nicely.

[Mario Schweiger]

I´ve edited Beros posting with the link => removed the link.
Just gave the PDF-number.
So members may grab it, others not (so easily).

Mario

[Berislav Horvatic]

* caspius is not ursinii (species level consideration)
Sure.
* Croatian caspius are at species range margins, which always deserve special care (population level consideration)
Sure. And the island is very small, as you pointed yourself in a recent posting.
* I don't know the status of those populations (population level consideration)
Nobody does yet. Al of them were discovered so very recently. All that we know is that they are small.
* papers are out, so anyone can find them <=> every time some piece of info is repeated over the internet, the word spreads more and more... ("moral" issue)

I also readilly sign what Micha wrote. Well said, nothing to add - in the sense that you both
formulated the given (im)possibilities that face us. One has to swim in that as best as one can.

[Berislav Horvatic]

I´ve edited Beros posting with the link => removed the link.
Just gave the PDF-number.
So members may grab it, others not (so easily).

So the poor others will just have to follow Boris's advice:

Pierre, just google "caspius Croatia", and you will find everything you need, published.

Not an easy way out of this...

[Pierre-Yves Vaucher]

keep quiet, just say like that without waiting for reply, only by mp OK ? I said that because I thought that the northern boundary was south montenegro... So I was wrong

[Boris Lauš]

Oh guys, you were supposed to comment on Geralds exellent photos, and save this kind of discussion for some other threads

But just a quick answer to this:

As a general rule, I would not answer this, at least not in a public forum, regardless of the fact that it is already "out there". There are other examples of papers giving specific coordinates for sites of threatened (sub)species and morphs of European herps, yet I would rather not be the one offering them on a silver platter on a public webpage.

So, I'm thinking there is a little bit of paranoia going on here If we presume that all the herpetologists on this forum are trustworthy, there is no harm in pushing one in the right direction (google). Particulary one that was already a guest in our country with some of our herpetologists. And if one poacher is intelligent enough to come to this site and read all of our postings, then I guess one would also be intelligent enough to put the two key words in google as well. So, some precaution - yes, but let's not go overboard, please.

Back to the main topic, here are a few animals that escaped Geralds camera (while he was focused on P.siculus ):

[Pierre-Yves Vaucher]

yes staying in this thread !!
So nice pictures and chance...it's the third time I go in Croatia, and the third time I found only DOR of juvenile Elaphe quatuorlineata. This snake is so nice when it's young .. we saw one alive but too late, when we go back with the car (not possible to stop immediatly) the snake was freshly dead...