Herptrip Montenegro-Croatia-Slovenia 2012

[Kim Jespersen]

Really nice stuff...

[Pierre-Yves Vaucher]

Your "neotene vulgaris" (in the text even called helveticus) is according to my guessing a neotene alpestris. The first of those (so-called common) Montenegrin alpestris I see on photo, I think.

It was near Gracac, Croatia.

[Mario Schweiger]

I dont believe in alpestris in that region.
Maybe to low elevation and to close to coast.

Mario

[Jeroen Speybroeck]

I dont believe in alpestris in that region.
Maybe to low elevation and to close to coast.

I still see alpestris in that animal, sorry. The type of dark spots, the lining of the ventrolateral area, the colour/pattern on the tail, the colour typical for neotenes, ...
Compare viewtopic.php?f=13&t=1236&p=11066#p11066 for funny alpestris colours, even in adults.

[Jeroen Speybroeck]

A con : the hue of the belly colour.

BTW, what's up with the toes of the hindfeet?

[Sandra Panienka]

Interesting discussion. When I first saw the pics I was actually thinking, the neotenes are helveticus due to lack of pigmentation of the cloaca and belly coloration, but then, what do I know, I've never documented neotenes anywhere.
I had a look at neotene alpestris pics in the alpestris book by Thiesmeier and Ulli Schulte. Unfortunately no belly pics. But Jeroen may actually be right when I look at the alpestris pics in that other topic, which are stunning alpestris specimen.
What newt species are reportet for that region?

[Mario Schweiger]

Are these two 2 different specimens: dorsal/ventral?
The toes on the ventral pic look like having some webbing - not known in alpestris?

Mario

[Mario Schweiger]

Mea culpa!

Ichthyosaura is well known from that region and from low altitude there (80 m asl).

Kalezic, M.L., G. Dzukic & N. Tvrtkovic (1990): Newts (Triturus, Salamandridae, Urodela) of the Bukovica and Ravni Kotari regions (Yugoslavia).-- Spixiana 13(3): 329 - 338
PDF

Mario

[Matthieu Berroneau]

Franck relate me your trip...
Congrats !!!

[Jeroen Speybroeck]

Mea culpa!

Ichthyosaura is well known from that region and from low altitude there (80 m asl).

Kalezic, M.L., G. Dzukic & N. Tvrtkovic (1990): Newts (Triturus, Salamandridae, Urodela) of the Bukovica and Ravni Kotari regions (Yugoslavia).-- Spixiana 13(3): 329 - 338
PDF

Mario

Well, it's not an easy alpestris, for sure
Thanks for checking, Mario!