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Re: Herptrip Montenegro-Croatia-Slovenia 2012
Posted:
Thu Jun 28, 2012 12:02 amby Kim Jespersen
Really nice stuff...
Re: Herptrip Montenegro-Croatia-Slovenia 2012
Posted:
Fri Jun 29, 2012 7:07 amby Pierre-Yves Vaucher
Jeroen Speybroeck wrote:Your "neotene vulgaris" (in the text even called helveticus) is according to my guessing a neotene alpestris. The first of those (so-called common) Montenegrin alpestris I see on photo, I think.
It was near Gracac, Croatia.
Re: Herptrip Montenegro-Croatia-Slovenia 2012
Posted:
Fri Jun 29, 2012 8:31 amby Mario Schweiger
I dont believe in alpestris in that region.
Maybe to low elevation and to close to coast.
Mario
Re: Herptrip Montenegro-Croatia-Slovenia 2012
Posted:
Fri Jun 29, 2012 9:10 amby Jeroen Speybroeck
Mario Schweiger wrote:I dont believe in alpestris in that region.
Maybe to low elevation and to close to coast.
I still see alpestris in that animal, sorry. The type of dark spots, the lining of the ventrolateral area, the colour/pattern on the tail, the colour typical for neotenes, ...
Compare
viewtopic.php?f=13&t=1236&p=11066#p11066 for funny alpestris colours, even in adults.
Re: Herptrip Montenegro-Croatia-Slovenia 2012
Posted:
Fri Jun 29, 2012 9:11 amby Jeroen Speybroeck
A con : the hue of the belly colour.
BTW, what's up with the toes of the hindfeet?
Re: Herptrip Montenegro-Croatia-Slovenia 2012
Posted:
Fri Jun 29, 2012 12:51 pmby Sandra Panienka
Interesting discussion. When I first saw the pics I was actually thinking, the neotenes are helveticus due to lack of pigmentation of the cloaca and belly coloration, but then, what do I know, I've never documented neotenes anywhere.
I had a look at neotene alpestris pics in the alpestris book by Thiesmeier and Ulli Schulte. Unfortunately no belly pics. But Jeroen may actually be right when I look at the alpestris pics in that other topic, which are stunning alpestris specimen.
What newt species are reportet for that region?
Re: Herptrip Montenegro-Croatia-Slovenia 2012
Posted:
Sat Jun 30, 2012 9:13 amby Mario Schweiger
Are these two 2 different specimens: dorsal/ventral?
The toes on the ventral pic look like having some webbing - not known in alpestris?
Mario
Re: Herptrip Montenegro-Croatia-Slovenia 2012
Posted:
Sat Jun 30, 2012 9:48 amby Mario Schweiger
Mea culpa!Ichthyosaura is well known from that region and from low altitude there (80 m asl).
Kalezic, M.L., G. Dzukic & N. Tvrtkovic (1990): Newts (Triturus, Salamandridae, Urodela) of the Bukovica and Ravni Kotari regions (Yugoslavia).-- Spixiana 13(3): 329 - 338
PDFMario
Re: Herptrip Montenegro-Croatia-Slovenia 2012
Posted:
Sat Jun 30, 2012 9:56 amby Matthieu Berroneau
Franck relate me your trip...
Congrats !!!
Re: Herptrip Montenegro-Croatia-Slovenia 2012
Posted:
Sat Jun 30, 2012 10:02 amby Jeroen Speybroeck
Mario Schweiger wrote:Mea culpa!Ichthyosaura is well known from that region and from low altitude there (80 m asl).
Kalezic, M.L., G. Dzukic & N. Tvrtkovic (1990): Newts (Triturus, Salamandridae, Urodela) of the Bukovica and Ravni Kotari regions (Yugoslavia).-- Spixiana 13(3): 329 - 338
PDFMario
Well, it's not an easy alpestris, for sure
Thanks for checking, Mario!