P. ridibundus vs. N. tessellata

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P. ridibundus vs. N. tessellata

Postby Mario Schweiger » Sat Jan 30, 2016 3:42 pm

Image
source: facebook; Norbert Puittinger Tierfotografie: Frosch frisst Schlange ! Aufgenommen am Donauufer in Bulgarien.
Nikon d5000,2,8 70_200mm ISO 500,bei 200mm
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Please visit also my personal Herp-site vipersgarden.at
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Re: P. ridibundus vs. N. tessellata

Postby Michael Wilms » Sat Jan 30, 2016 4:39 pm

Wow, what a picture! :o
And what a coincidence just to get this moment on a pic! ;)
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Re: P. ridibundus vs. N. tessellata

Postby Berislav Horvatic » Sat Jan 30, 2016 4:39 pm

In a pond on the island of Krk I saw such a big Pelophylax ridibundus alarmingly close to such
a small Natrix natrix that I really started to wonder who might eat whom... On that occasion
they seemed to just quietly ignore each other's presence, but it made me think...

NoviNikon 035_RED.jpg

Now we can see - it is possible, after all. If the frog is big enough and the snake small enough, then... it's up to
the frog to decide, not the snake. Why not?
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Re: P. ridibundus vs. N. tessellata

Postby Ilian Velikov » Sun Jan 31, 2016 2:49 am

This might be more common than we think, just rarely observed.

http://www.arkive.org/common-toad/bufo-bufo/image-A24499.html
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Re: P. ridibundus vs. N. tessellata

Postby Niklas Ban » Sun Jan 31, 2016 1:07 pm

Ilian Velikov wrote:This might be more common than we think, just rarely observed.

http://www.arkive.org/common-toad/bufo-bufo/image-A24499.html

There is no reason why Anura should not eat small snakes, there is no big different between a Natrixhatchling and any annelids. But I could bet that some of the frogs might puke, if the snakes fight to much in their belly. :lol:
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Re: P. ridibundus vs. N. tessellata

Postby Berislav Horvatic » Sun Jan 31, 2016 3:19 pm

Niklas Ban wrote:But I could bet that some of the frogs might puke, if the snakes fight to much in their belly. :lol:

For how long can any animal swallowed alive "fight" in a belly of the predator - don't they just
suffocate quickly enough?
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Re: P. ridibundus vs. N. tessellata

Postby Niklas Ban » Sun Jan 31, 2016 6:04 pm

Hmm I really don't know, I guess that suffocate might be not the main cause of death.
Especially Natrix can act quite long under conditions without oxygen. If the gastric secretion doesn't kill the natrix very fast it might be able to fight for at least 5 minutes :?: Just theoretical considerations.. Does anyone know the pKA of the Pelophylax gastric?
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Re: P. ridibundus vs. N. tessellata

Postby Berislav Horvatic » Mon Feb 01, 2016 11:43 pm

Niklas Ban wrote:Does anyone know the pKA of the Pelophylax gastric?

You really expect a straight and material answer to THAT?
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Re: P. ridibundus vs. N. tessellata

Postby Jeroen Speybroeck » Mon Feb 01, 2016 11:59 pm

Berislav Horvatic wrote:
Niklas Ban wrote:Does anyone know the pKA of the Pelophylax gastric?

You really expect a straight and material answer to THAT?

Google "ph stomach frog" and be amazed.
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Re: P. ridibundus vs. N. tessellata

Postby Berislav Horvatic » Tue Feb 02, 2016 12:23 pm

Jeroen Speybroeck wrote:Google "ph stomach frog" and be amazed.

I did google it and was amazed. But I still have no idea for how
long a swallowed snake might survive in a frog's stomach.
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