Cres island 2016

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Re: Cres island 2016

Postby Erich Köck » Fri Apr 29, 2016 9:15 pm

Berislav Horvatic wrote:
I think Mario is right, jpeg compression usually does not impact image sharpness.

But I've never mentioned any JPEG COMPRESSION (meaning transforming anything else to a jpeg file),
what I meant is the mere REDUCTION of a cca. 6 MB original JPEG file to a less than 500 kB JPEG file,
which can be done in many ways, some better than the others...

These two things are basically the same. Transforming a file type to jpeg INVARIABLY involves compression, reducing file size USUALLY does too. There are just 2 main parameters you can fiddle with in order to reduce file sizes of jpegs. Parameter number one is image resolution, either by cropping (cutting away unwanted portions of the image) or by resampling (calculating a lower resolution image).
The first option usually deteriorates image quality for a plethora of reasons, the latter almost always improves image sharpness. Parameter number two is (further) compressing the image - usually done with a "quality" slider or number while saving the image. Most of the time you will have to combine these two methods to get the desired file size while retaining optimum image quality.
There is a third parameter for reducing file size, color depth, but no sane person would use this option unless one wants to create a cartoon-like look. I'm not aware of any other of the "many ways" you mentioned, but I am curious to learn about them....
The visible softness in these images is usually produced by bad (misaligned) lenses or too much noise reduction
applied by the camera - or the raw converter. Supertelephoto-lenses like 18-300mm tend to be soft at their long
end wide open, and give the exact look of the images seen here.

Yes, BUT:
Mario had a problem of his own (with his HARDWARE, as he says) and Thomas (maybe) a quite different problem,
(with the SOFTWARE, as he says), yet the results seem to me to be the same...
And like I said, in this forum you may encounter a whole report by a good photographer that is "too soft" (at least
to my taste). Not just some of the pictures, under some special (unfavourable?) conditions, but dozens of them,
all of them. How should one explain that? Some people just like it that way, or they miss something, or what?

as far as I understood Thomas did not check the parameters of the camera, that's got nothing to do with software. Another very common cause for image softness is diffraction of light due to a very small aperture (above f/11 or f/16). Just speculating, but this might be one of the parameters not checked by Thomas.
Combine aperture 16 or higher (to have a lot of depth of field) with a mediocre "consumer" lens and some image cropping (to fill the frame with the subject), then add some minor camera shake (not uncommon with exposure times resulting from f/16) and the image will often be as soft as seen in some of the examples above.
There are just too many parameters affecting image sharpness to tell exactly why a given photo might be out of focus, soft, fuzzy or whatever you call it without knowing the model of camera and lens, focal lenght, aperture, exposure time and ISO used capturing and post processing steps applied to the image.
And there might be one easily corrected cause for image softness at the viewer's side - be sure to hit ctrl-0 in your browser to view images at 100%.
btw: i prefer a slightly soft photo of a beautiful specimen to no photo at all, and that's why I often deliberately make a compromise when taking pictures knowing if I could/would spend thousands of euros for a better lens i would get much sharper photos. But that's not gonna happen ;-) And maybe others (the good photographers you are referring to) subscribe to this point of view and rather take suboptimal pictures than none at all...
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Re: Cres island 2016

Postby Berislav Horvatic » Sat Apr 30, 2016 2:57 pm

Most of the time you will have to combine these two methods to get the desired file size while retaining optimum
image quality.
... I'm not aware of any other of the "many ways" you mentioned, but I am curious to learn about them....

I actually meant just the various handy programmes offered to people who don’t want to loose too much time on that,
not the underlying technical procedures (methods) - which are few, of course, as you've suggested yourself.
And there's really no need for a "von oben herab" manner of commenting, like "... I'm not aware of any other of the
"many ways" you mentioned, but I am curious to learn about them..."

... usually done with a "quality" slider or number while saving the image.

Yes. But then there are even simpler options, even in today’s cameras, like “Reduce these 100 pictures to “SMALL”.
Then you get them, in a second, and you need not care how it’s done. You just get what you get. That's, I believe,
NOT what most people at this forum do, so that's precisely what has raised my questions in the first place.

as far as I understood Thomas did not check the parameters of the camera, that's got nothing to do with software.

What are the “parameters” of a camera, if not the parameters (preset values) of its built-in software? We call that
“options”, and either change them ourselves, to better meet our needs/tastes, or just leave them at their “default
(factory) values”. I'd very much like Thomas to say himself what precisely he did, or did not do, with the "parameters".

btw: i prefer a slightly soft photo of a beautiful specimen to no photo at all, and that's why I often deliberately make a compromise when taking pictures knowing if I could/would spend thousands of euros for a better lens i would get much sharper photos. But that's not gonna happen ;-) And maybe others (the good photographers you are referring to) subscribe to this point of view and rather take suboptimal pictures than none at all...

I’ve always had just a compact camera, no sophisticated equipment. My photos are either sharp or, sometimes, simply fucked-up by some of the unfortunate circumstances. Those I delete, and they are, fortunately, rather few. But I’ve never produced a whole trip report with ALL of the pictures being fuzzy. Just doesn’t happen (to me.) So why does it happen to anybody? Actually, to people who
are better photographers than myself, who have every kind of sophisticated gear? It's obviously not choosing between "a slightly soft
photo of a beautiful specimen to no photo at all", it just can't be all along, for days on end. Is that then an OPTION (individual taste),
or what?

What I mean by "sharp" is e. g. the following photo:

Be6545_RED.jpg

If anyone would prefer a "softer" one, sorry, I don't produce them with my puny pocket camera. And don't want to.
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Re: Cres island 2016

Postby Erich Köck » Sun May 01, 2016 10:06 am

Berislav Horvatic wrote:
I actually meant just the various handy programmes offered to people who don’t want to loose too much time on that,
not the underlying technical procedures (methods) - which are few, of course, as you've suggested yourself.
And there's really no need for a "von oben herab" manner of commenting, like "... I'm not aware of any other of the
"many ways" you mentioned, but I am curious to learn about them..."


did not want to show a "von oben herab" attitude at all. I was just wondering if we were talking about the same thing. Which we weren't, as it turned out. I was talking about the underlying principles, you obviously ment the myriad of ways to get there... mystery solved ;-)
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Re: Cres island 2016

Postby Berislav Horvatic » Sun May 01, 2016 3:33 pm

ONE of the "mysteries" very happily solved/resolved indeed, but what about the other, more important ones? (See above.)
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Re: Cres island 2016

Postby Matthijs Hollanders » Sun May 01, 2016 5:14 pm

Mario, I think it's time to change the name of the forum because I'm sure more than half is pointless rambling by now. :D
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Re: Cres island 2016

Postby Berislav Horvatic » Tue May 03, 2016 1:25 pm

Allow me to disagree. I do like the name of the forum and find it very much appropriate.
And when it comes to the opinion that “more than half is pointless rambling by now”,
maybe not everyone would agree on WHICH particular half has deserved to be named like
that. Namely, one can halve any whole in very many ways... according to a lot of criteria.

Thomas Bader wrote:You are absolutely right Bero. Unfortunately I had not my own camera an I didn't check the parameters,
so most of the pictures are crap. As soon as I get the pictures of other members of the trip I'll post them
- hopefully in a good quality!

So, any pictures by Michael Duda and Hannes Hill? Can't wait...
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Re: Cres island 2016

Postby Mario Schweiger » Tue May 03, 2016 2:01 pm

Berislav Horvatic wrote:
So, any pictures by Michael Duda and Hannes Hill? Can't wait...


out in the field till middle of May :lol:
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Re: Cres island 2016

Postby Berislav Horvatic » Tue May 03, 2016 3:40 pm

Mario Schweiger wrote:out in the field till middle of May :lol:

OK, thanks, I'll wait, what else. (And then remind them, and/or Thomas.
Pardon me for my insistence/impertinence.)
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Re: Cres island 2016

Postby Mario Schweiger » Mon May 30, 2016 9:39 am

Cres island: May, 25th to 29th, 2016
VACATION, NO herping trip :lol:

a very nice Podarcis melisellensis male ("peloponnesiacus" morph 8-) )
meliLube1.jpg
P. melisselensis male; near Lubenice, Cres island in the late sun
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Re: Cres island 2016

Postby Jeroen Speybroeck » Mon May 30, 2016 10:12 am

Woow, crazy animal!
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