tuskany, liguria and a bit of ticino

[Mario Schweiger]

Mario et al., a case can be made for the genus name change (debatable like they usually are, as genus delimitations comes down to calibrating against related taxa rather than applying solid criteria, imho). Yet, as I have argued before, there is only evidence for a sufficient degree of reproductive isolation between balearicus/viridis/variabilis on one hand and siculus/boulengeri on the other. A split within either cluster is so far based solely on mtDNA clades = not enough. Or did I miss something?

I only use the name, as published/used in different papers

Mario

[Jeroen Speybroeck]

Dominik, S. italicus in Liguria? Shouldn't that be strinatii?

or ambrosii - depends on distribution

Mario

Of course. I was guessing strinatii based on the looks of this particular animal.

[Jeroen Speybroeck]

I only use the name, as published/used in different papers

Mario, of course, this discussion is not new to either of us. You are as free as anyone to "go with the flow", if I may call it like that. However, I consider myself equally free to keep annoying you and regretting that a reputed database (which is what you are aiming for) propagates flawed views, so I repeat that elevating mtDNA clades to species rank without additional data is poor science. Mitochondrial DNA is only inherited along the maternal line, lacks recombination, can show huge introgression (even between species), ...
Ballard JWO, Whitlock MC 2004 The incomplete natural history of mitochondria. Molecular Ecology 13: 729–744.
Bazin E, Glemin S, Galtier N 2006 Population size does not influence mitochondrial genetic diversity in animals. Science 312: 570–572.
Currat M, Ruedi M, Petit R. J. & Excoffier, L. (2008). The hidden side of invasions: massive introgression by local genes. Evolution, 62, 1908–1920.
We've been here before e.g. when discussing ammodytes clades (including a nicely phrased reasoning by Wolfgang Wüster). Maybe you also went with the flow on the latter case, but it would seem that the result is that you are basically contradicting yourself if you add up these two cases.
But maybe we can re-address this in Vienna next month

[Jeroen Speybroeck]

Sorry for the hi-jacking, Dominik! Maybe this winter depression discussion should have its own thread which can grow each year....

[Jeroen Speybroeck]

Dominik, S. italicus in Liguria? Shouldn't that be strinatii?

or ambrosii - depends on distribution

Mario

Of course. I was guessing strinatii based on the looks of this particular animal.

Looks a little bit like some of the bianchii in fact...

[Dominik Hauser]

No problem guys this is an interesting topic . Sorry for the wrong place, I thought it was liguria already, but it was northern tuskany .