trip for Vipera walser

Re: trip for Vipera walser

Postby Clive Brignull » Wed Jul 06, 2016 7:25 pm

I have just returned from a trip to Montenegro and of course took time to visit the Biogradska NP to photograph Meadow vipers. At the small cafe near to the search site(I'm sure you all know which one), the person who served us our refreshments asked us how many snakes we were removing. None I answered. We were then informed that snake collectors from Serbia came regular to bag up and take away snakes. Thats sad news.. It shows how vunerable these sites are.
Clive Brignull
 
Posts: 54
Joined: Wed Oct 19, 2011 11:51 am
Hometown: Braintree
country: England

Re: trip for Vipera walser

Postby Berislav Horvatic » Wed Jul 06, 2016 8:11 pm

Clive Brignull wrote:We were then informed that snake collectors from Serbia came regular to bag up and take away snakes.
Thats sad news.. It shows how vunerable these sites are.

???!!! I still hope (against hope) that "snake collectors from Serbia" were just the herpetologists from
Belgrade, not the poachers & smugglers... and that it was only a misunderstanding. But if not, then...
In any case, I've promptly sent a message to the relevant people in Belgrade. It's been their monitoring
ground for years, so, it's them who should be informed as soon as possible.
Berislav Horvatic
 
Posts: 1132
Joined: Wed Jun 03, 2009 4:35 pm
Hometown: Zagreb
country: Croatia

Re: trip for Vipera walser

Postby Guillaume Gomard » Wed Jul 06, 2016 8:26 pm

Hi Jeroen & all,

Thanks for the report, it's nice to see the habitat of those vipers (which looks pretty nice) and to have your feedback about V.aspis occurrence at this location. Regarding your question, I agree with the others, the ones who want to visit the site for good or bad reasons will go there anyway. I also anticipate that this snake will be found in terrarium soon (sometimes it's just the other way around, like for Atheris matildae which was already kept in terrarium when its description came out).
User avatar
Guillaume Gomard
 
Posts: 596
Joined: Thu May 20, 2010 12:29 pm
Hometown: Strasbourg
country: France

Re: trip for Vipera walser

Postby Ilian Velikov » Wed Jul 06, 2016 8:29 pm

Clive Brignull wrote:???!!! I still hope (against hope) that "snake collectors from Serbia" were just the herpetologists from
Belgrade


Even if they are herpetologists if they "come regular to bag up and take snakes" how is this better than poachers doing the same thing? Maybe some scientists would disagree but for me the purpose of taking the snakes doesn't justify the loss. And I'll stop here because otherwise I'd have to write a speech that probably most of you wouldn't agree with and even might be offended by.
Ilian Velikov
 
Posts: 1211
Joined: Thu May 21, 2009 12:19 pm
Hometown: Pravets
country: Bulgaria

Re: trip for Vipera walser

Postby Berislav Horvatic » Wed Jul 06, 2016 8:38 pm

Ilian Velikov wrote:Even if they are herpetologists if they "come regular to bag up and take snakes" how is this better than poachers doing the same thing? Maybe some scientists would disagree but for me the purpose of taking the snakes doesn't justify the loss.

No, no, no, the Belgrade team were not taking the snakes away, they were doing the monitoring of the population
for years. If they bagged them up, it was only to measure them and release them where found. A local guy might
have misunderstood the whole thing - THEIR thing. Or worse, he has seen real poachers, taking the animals away.
That is the question.
Berislav Horvatic
 
Posts: 1132
Joined: Wed Jun 03, 2009 4:35 pm
Hometown: Zagreb
country: Croatia

Re: trip for Vipera walser

Postby Ilian Velikov » Wed Jul 06, 2016 8:45 pm

Berislav Horvatic wrote:No, no, no, the Belgrade team were not taking the snakes away, they were doing the monitoring of the population
for years. If they bagged them up, it was only to measure them and release them where found. A local guy might
have misunderstood the whole thing - THEIR thing. Or worse, he has seen real poachers, taking the animals away.
That is the question.


Ah, OK I see. In this case I too hope there was a misunderstanding although I somehow doubt it. In any case what I said does happen but it's more of a "face-to-face and a beer" topic rather than a "public forum" one, so I won't elaborate on it.
Ilian Velikov
 
Posts: 1211
Joined: Thu May 21, 2009 12:19 pm
Hometown: Pravets
country: Bulgaria

Re: trip for Vipera walser

Postby Berislav Horvatic » Wed Jul 06, 2016 8:51 pm

I got a prompt response from Dušan Jelić (Zagreb): He remembers that during those fieldtrips they told
all the locals they hunted snakes and never returned them back. The locals were delighted, because
they abhor them. He thinks that this new local legend might be a cosequence. And guarantees that all
snakes (caught by THEM) were released where found - of course they were. Those are serious scientists.
When/if it comes to poachers, who knows,...
Berislav Horvatic
 
Posts: 1132
Joined: Wed Jun 03, 2009 4:35 pm
Hometown: Zagreb
country: Croatia

Re: trip for Vipera walser

Postby Ilian Velikov » Wed Jul 06, 2016 9:10 pm

Berislav Horvatic wrote:I got a prompt response from Dušan Jelić (Zagreb): He remembers that during those fieldtrips they told
all the locals they hunted snakes and never returned them back. The locals were delighted, because
they abhor them. He thinks that this new local legend might be a cosequence. And guarantees that all
snakes (caught by THEM) were released where found - of course they were. Those are serious scientists.


Good to know that. And at the same time the attitude of the locals saddens me (although I knew that, it's like this almost everywhere). If only people used their brains for the right purpose all would benefit. I'm sure if the snakes weren't there the clientele of the aforementioned cafe would be much less. If the owner and the employees in this cafe abhor the snakes too they must be idiots.
Ilian Velikov
 
Posts: 1211
Joined: Thu May 21, 2009 12:19 pm
Hometown: Pravets
country: Bulgaria

Re: trip for Vipera walser

Postby Berislav Horvatic » Wed Jul 06, 2016 9:27 pm

An additional request, from prof. dr. Jelka Crnobrnja Isailović (University of Belgrade): Please stress
also that, for the time being, our colleagues visiting Biogradska Gora should NOT stick their neck out
by explaining the locals that we were actually NOT removing the snakes, let them NOT comment on
that at all.
We hope that the continuous education by local young enthusiasts will achieve it’s effect, so that in
near future the local inhabitants of Bjelasica could be told the truth – that all the ursiniis we met at
Bjelasica have remained there.
(Jelka is not a registered member of this forum, so she asked me to convey the message, which I
gladly and promptly did.)
Berislav Horvatic
 
Posts: 1132
Joined: Wed Jun 03, 2009 4:35 pm
Hometown: Zagreb
country: Croatia

Re: trip for Vipera walser

Postby Ilian Velikov » Wed Jul 06, 2016 10:06 pm

Berislav Horvatic wrote:We hope that the continuous education by local young enthusiasts will achieve it’s effect


It's great to hear that there are also some sensible people among the locals. It gives me hope for the future. I can't praise them enough for what they are doing.
Ilian Velikov
 
Posts: 1211
Joined: Thu May 21, 2009 12:19 pm
Hometown: Pravets
country: Bulgaria

PreviousNext

Return to Italy and Malta

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest