Short trip to SE Spain

[miguel santos]

Hi Peter,
I read the study from Renoult/Geniez2009 again and indeed their P. liolepis with the "Valencia clade" corresponds geographically with the Northern range of the P. hispanica "sensu strictu" from Kaliontzopoulou2011.
I have however my questionmarks about the populations of this last lineage ( P. h. s.s. from Kaliontzopoulou ) in Central Natural Park of Sierra de Segura, the Population of La Calahorra and a few isolated populations to the SE of the Segura mountain range.

In Renoult/Geniez they mention the "Valencia clade" in the Sierra Maria de Nieva, but were not morphologically different from their hispanicus ( Galera by Kaliontzopoulou ). They don't mention any other "Valencia clade" in the area. It is surely impossible to sample all populations in the area and the study is in many ways still taking place, but the Adults I saw in La Calahorra look diferent from the Galera type. They also look quite different from your P. h. ss from Nacimiento del Guadalquivir while grouped ( lineage ) toghether by Kaliontzopoulou,

Kaliontzopoulou would consider the La Calahorra, Nacimiento del Guadalquivir and the one I saw in Nacimiento del rio Mundo as belonging to the same Lineage correct?
I am curious about you opinion!

I saw no juveniles, I wonder if it would have helped. Maybe we all have to back.....

Greetings

[Peter Oefinger]

I'm not shure if I understood your question but the two lineages are easy to distinguish:

Nacimiento de Guadalquivir, Rio Mundo and other mountain stations = hispanicus sensu stricto type (sensu Kaliontzopoulou) = P. liolepis (sensu Renoult)
La Calahorra and most other places of Spanish Levante = Galera type (sensu Kaliontzopoulou) = P. hispanicus (sensu Geniez)

The fact that there are pale and contrasting populations at P. hispanicus (respectively Galera type) is already mentioned in Geniez' 2007 original description.

[miguel santos]

Clear and concise, that was the association I needed to have, specially the detail about the sensu from Kalintzopoulou is one lineage, while the Geniez they belong to the 2 morphs.
Thanks,
Miguel

[Peter Oefinger]

Anyhow, for me there are still two open questions:
1. Is P. hispanicus sensu stricto (sensu Kaliontzopoulou) really P. liolepis or is it a new (sub-)species? There are pros and cons about this but I think they are both liolepis - but maybe some nucleus DNA analysis will reveal some surprise in future.
2. What's the morphological difference between virescens and vaucheri? I raised this question earlier. Looking at your Andujar shots I still can't tell how to distinguish...

[miguel santos]

Very good questions , I always see the vaucheri as a stronger/heavier species with males with strong heads . In Portugal I rarely see virescens with strong heads as vaucheri. In Andujar I was surprised by the variety of shapes I saw on the small wall . So much so that I even considered posting all p. virescens I saw the week before in Portugal to compare. I didn't to it because I thought it would be exagerated.
I also thought that this was a mixed population of p. virescens and the P. vaucheri SC Spain. I searched in Andujár because I knew both are recorded in Linares as mentioned in Kalintzopoulou 2011. I also went to the train station of Linares and to Baeza but I saw only P. virescens. ( I think).....
If you want I can zoom in the heads or blue spots on the sides of the belly on the original photos.

[Peter Oefinger]

Miguel, we can continue the discussion via e-mail.