! advance on research on B salamandrivorans !

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! advance on research on B salamandrivorans !

Postby Jeroen Speybroeck » Thu Oct 30, 2014 9:14 pm

http://www.sciencemag.org/content/346/6209/630.abstract

In short - the fungus originates from Asia, is very lethal to practically the entire range of tested members of the Salamandridae family (tested on Salamandrina perspicillata, Salamandra salamandra, Pleurodeles waltl, Euproctus platycephalus, Lissotriton italicus, Ichthyosaura alpestris, Triturus cristatus, Neurergus crocatus, of which all infected individuals died, but strangely not in Lissotriton helveticus...) + (at least) Hydromantes strinatii. It came to Europe through the pet trade from Asia :evil: :!:
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Re: ! advance on research on B salamandrivorans !

Postby Kristian Munkholm » Thu Oct 30, 2014 10:47 pm

Hmmm... perhaps I should get a subscription.

Anyway, while I applaud the effort and fully acknowledge any advance in knowledge is a good thing and a prerequisite for minimizing the harm done it sounds as if the advanced knowledge is just about as depressing as feared.
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Re: ! advance on research on B salamandrivorans !

Postby miguel santos » Fri Oct 31, 2014 9:08 am

That is bad news but one that was waiting to come. That the fungus hier in the NL was discovered is not strange if you see how many people keep salamanders has a hobby. They are also sold in pet shops specialized in fish. To be fair this could have happened on any western country were terrariums are popular.
What this means for us though, (and I am also out there counting animals in the field or searching them on hollydays) is that we must be aweare that we also can carry the fungus through Europe if we visit too many sites too quickly. I is quite important to know how long the fungus can survive on shoes, nets, skin etc.
They should any way stop the trade on pet salamanders from Asia. And lets hope some animals can develope some resistance to it.
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Re: ! advance on research on B salamandrivorans !

Postby Jeroen Speybroeck » Fri Oct 31, 2014 10:28 am

I hope I am not disclosing too much information if I tell you that the Dutch site where it all started still hosts a (very limited) number of survivors. Even if resistant individuals would exist and could reproduce to achieve pre-crash levels, I would assume the effects of the genetic bottleneck that the population went through to be severe. This is more likely to cause extinctions and loss of genetic diversity due to genetic drift.

While a lot still needs to be uncovered about Bs, it has surprisingly weak tolerance for dry and warmer conditions. If you don't want to buy Virkon to disinfect your gear, thoroughly cleaning and subsequent drying of boots etc. is likely to go a long way. Personally, I also have cancelled my plans of visiting Flemish populations other than "my own". The fact that I actually visited the Bunderbos not too long before the discovery of Bs was published, gave me the creeps...

Kristian, I'm quite sure the paper will find its way to Mario's DB soon enough.
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Re: ! advance on research on B salamandrivorans !

Postby miguel santos » Fri Oct 31, 2014 11:55 am

I agree with all that you wrote Jeroen, I also avoid going there now even just for a walk. Thats a petty because I work just some 5Km away....
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Re: ! advance on research on B salamandrivorans !

Postby Maarten Gilbert » Fri Oct 31, 2014 12:06 pm

This is quite worrying, to say the least... :( Much broader host range than I was "hoping" for. This is probably part of current studies, but any effects observed for other species than Salamandra salamandra in the field (e.g. Ichthyosaura alpestris)?

Anyway, this means we should also keep our eyes open for diseased and dead animals of other salamander species in and surrounding the affected region.
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Re: ! advance on research on B salamandrivorans !

Postby miguel santos » Fri Oct 31, 2014 1:46 pm

I don't think that other species were " a lot " afected. I speak ocasionally with one person I know monitored the fire salamander, And we only mentioned this species. If other efects were clearly visible, it would havealready been noticed.
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Re: ! advance on research on B salamandrivorans !

Postby Jeroen Speybroeck » Fri Oct 31, 2014 2:14 pm

Alpine newt numbers from the Bunderbos have not been monitored adequately, but in contrast to what Miguel wrote, I have been told a reduction in numbers may be at hand. However, like Miguel said & as far as I know, there are no cases of mortality in field conditions in any other species than Salamandra salamandra. Maybe other factors make fire salamanders more susceptible under field conditions, who knows.

miguel santos wrote:To be fair this could have happened on any western country were terrariums are popular.


The thing is that the popularity of keeping salamanders (for as far as I can tell) is not equally vivid across countries.

Furthermore, I think you need to factor in the amount of attention this particular population has received. I dare to assume that a lot of Dutch people wanted to see this species within the borders of their own country (how silly it may seem...). This might result in a more than average exposure level. Naturally, there are salamander keepers among these people. At least one of them didn't clean his stuff properly. For the sake of that person, it's a good thing we'll never no who. For the sake of the fire salamander, this person should have never started keeping salamanders and/or seeking them out in the wild. I'm not going to brand herp keepers as evil (again ;) ), but my personal dislikes for animals in terraria have been reinforced by this issue.
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Re: ! advance on research on B salamandrivorans !

Postby miguel santos » Fri Oct 31, 2014 5:30 pm

Aldough I keep some animals myself, I completely agree with Jeroen. People shoud not keep all sorts of animals in all parts of the world. Disease carrying and the risk of excaped/released animals being able to stablish populations, should be taken into consideration.
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Re: ! advance on research on B salamandrivorans !

Postby Rémon ter Harmsel » Sat Nov 01, 2014 10:47 pm

Jeroen Speybroeck wrote: I would assume the effects of the genetic bottleneck that the population went through to be severe. This is more likely to cause extinctions and loss of genetic diversity due to genetic drift.


Very likely, yes, but species have bounced back from the edge of extinction with even lesser numbers. As long as they make it through the bottleneck.. There is always hope!

For the rest... terrible (but to be expected...) news... I am curious to see if any measures regarding the import of Asian species will be implemented.
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