Newt larvae ID

[Liam Russell]

The easiest distinguishing feature of Pleurodeles larvae compared to alpestris is that the crest on Pleurodeles usually starts immediately behind the head, whilst on alpestris it starts down the back- also tail tip more rounded in alpestris.

This one I think is alpestris

These look more like Pleurodeles

[Sandra Panienka]

I hope you're right and only the big larvae are from waltl. Otherwise there's a big problem. In my own garden pond the M.alpestrislarvae are very black so I will go to another pond today to see how they look overthere.

I. alpestris larvae can vary in color, they can be dark grey and they can have very light colors even within a population, so you should be careful by trying to distinguish between larvae based on color.
I think Liam mentioned something interesting, that the crest of the Pleurodeles larvae starts right behind the head. That seems to be better for distinguishing between the two species. Most alpine newt larvae that I know have a crest starting on their backs behind the front legs.

[Peter Engelen]

These look more like Pleurodeles

IMG_2477 %28Kopie%29.JPG

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The left one is one of the pond with the Pleuro's, the right one is 100% alpestris. This one is from a pond with only alpestris on it. Just to compare.

[Jeroen Speybroeck]

I'm still rather certain that none of these are Pleuro larvae. Pleuro has this massive head and different proportions etc...

There used to be a good photo of a Pleuro larva by GertJan here =>
http://www.euroherp.com/forum/subject/638/
but the thing's limping (again...).

[Mario Schweiger]

Maybe you should compare with one of the following (these are true Pleurodeles - captive bred )

http://www.caudata.org/cc/species/Pleurodeles/P_waltl.shtml

http://www.caudata.org/photoplog/image-pleurodeles-waltl-larva-358/

For me, Liam´s 2nd looks like Pleurodeles

Mario

[Jeroen Speybroeck]

The way I see it, a close look at the shape of the head shows that all are alpestris (as Liam's 2nd pic is in fact one of Peter's and features 2 alpestris, one of which Peter confirmed), but maybe I misunderstood...

[Liam Russell]

The way I see it, a close look at the shape of the head shows that all are alpestris (as Liam's 2nd pic is in fact one of Peter's and features 2 alpestris, one of which Peter confirmed), but maybe I misunderstood...

I thought Peter meant one of the two in the photo was alpestris and one waltl - but they both look the same so was a bit confused

[Jeroen Speybroeck]

The way I see it, a close look at the shape of the head shows that all are alpestris (as Liam's 2nd pic is in fact one of Peter's and features 2 alpestris, one of which Peter confirmed), but maybe I misunderstood...

I thought Peter meant one of the two in the photo was alpestris and one waltl - but they both look the same so was a bit confused

I believe he meant: one is alpestris, the other comes out of the waltl pond. The latter = could be anything.

[Sandra Panienka]

It actually says underneath the picture that the right larva is alpestris for sure and with the left larva he isn't sure as it is from the waltl pond. The head shape of the left larva looks 100 % alpestris to me, too.

[Mario Schweiger]

I´ve checked no NÖLLERT & NÖLLERT: Die Amphibien Europas.
In their key for larvae, they give following:
I. alpestris: body and fins mostly marbled or sometimes strong reticulated. Tail tip ends in a "needle"
P. waltl: upper fin ends on head, just between or a bit in front of gills. Tail with round end.