H. viridiflavus or H. gemonensis

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H. viridiflavus or H. gemonensis

Postby Tomas Klacek » Sat Sep 01, 2012 7:24 pm

Hi,
I just returned from Krk Island. Can you help me with an ID of this juvenile? Found near Ponikve lake in the middle of the Island.

Image
Image

Thanks, soon I'll send the rest of photos.
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Re: H. viridiflavus or H. gemonensis

Postby Mario Schweiger » Sat Sep 01, 2012 7:31 pm

For me its gemonensis! - body and head markings

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Re: H. viridiflavus or H. gemonensis

Postby Matthieu Berroneau » Sat Sep 01, 2012 11:34 pm

I agree !
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Re: H. viridiflavus or H. gemonensis

Postby Jeroen Speybroeck » Sun Sep 02, 2012 8:52 am

I remember this was once discussed on http://www.herpetofauna.at, but I can't seem to find it any more... Could you sum up the differences once again, please?
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Re: H. viridiflavus or H. gemonensis

Postby Tomas Klacek » Sun Sep 02, 2012 9:38 am

Thank you for an identification! As Jeroen I will be grateful for the differences between these two species.
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Re: H. viridiflavus or H. gemonensis

Postby Mario Schweiger » Sun Sep 02, 2012 10:10 am

It is very hard to give differences!
From literature:

Here are the summary of differences in head markings out of a paper by mine, printed at the end of this year or early 2013:
Hierophis gemonensis (following HENLE, 1993):
- between the eyes a "yellow", in the center broken line.
- at the back side of the Parietalia a "yellow" band, the collar is bordered by "yellow" lines = 3 lines on caudal side of head/neck.

Hierophis viridiflavus (following HEIMES, 1993):
- crossband between the eyes.
- yellow spot on each parietale.
- on caudal side of head/neck 3 light crossbands.

Therefore the only difference should be these two light spots on parietalia, but see this:
BabyGemo_Ulcinj_April2011.jpg
Baby gemonensis with two spots on Parietalia. From Ulcinj/Montenegro. Far outside of the range of H. viridiflavus


I dont believe in these differences!
Its the overall appearance, the small white spots on the dorsal scales (lower and upper edge of each scale) in gemonensis. Also the dorsal central blotches are much wider in viridiflavus.
And real babies, like yours, in viridiflavus the color is much more dull, the blotches are not so strong in contrast to the body color.

If you really want to know, you have to count the ventrals, but there´s a overlap too ;)

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Re: H. viridiflavus or H. gemonensis

Postby Matthieu Berroneau » Sun Sep 02, 2012 10:38 am

Mario explained probably better than me, but H.viridiflavus does not have these spots on the body.
And this color ...

A young H.viridiflavus :
H.v.viridiflavus-068.JPG


Edit : sorry, Mario is to fast !
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Re: H. viridiflavus or H. gemonensis

Postby Tomas Klacek » Sun Sep 02, 2012 1:48 pm

Thank you both, I have a lot of learning to do.
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Re: H. viridiflavus or H. gemonensis

Postby Jeroen Speybroeck » Sun Sep 02, 2012 6:49 pm

Yesss!
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