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Hi,

Difference between L viridian and trilineata is really easy. I'd bet on viridis for this one:
What is your opinion?



Šćulac (Croatia, near Karlovac) 25/08/2012

In any case, Lacerta trilineata is a Mediterranean species
and can not be found as far inland as Karlovac.

See PDF No 0321 in the Literature Database.

So, a juvenile Lacerta viridis, for sure.

Thank you for your answer,
I just looked at the pdf. Then according to it, around Sibenik there is only L trilineata? (It was about to be my next post, so you answered 2 in one, so strong )

For me this lizard looks like a female, not a juvenile. And in this area (although more western) there is acc. to W. Mayer a clade similar to L. bilineata or at least a contact zone. And this lizard looks like it.
Around Sibenik there is only trilineata.

Thomas Bader wrote:For me this lizard looks like a female, not a juvenile.

I would agree with that. (Of course, it could be both. But rather subadult than juvenile.)

And in this area (although more western) there is acc. to W. Mayer a clade similar to L. bilineata or at least a contact zone. And this lizard looks like it.

Do you seriously mean that you (or anyone else) could distinguish a bilineata from viridis by looking at a photo?

Do you seriously mean that you (or anyone else) could distinguish a bilineata from viridis by looking at a photo?

Hm, I actually thought that a green throat-area like this in juvenile/subadult specimen is a very likely sign of bilineata influence, or more precise, a typical characteristic of bilineata/at least speaks against viridis
Btw. I would also say it's a at least subadult female.

Gerald Ochsenhofer wrote:Hm, I actually thought that a green throat-area like this in juvenile/subadult specimen is a very likely sign of bilineata influence, or more precise, a typical characteristic of bilineata/at least speaks against viridis

Hm, "a green throat-area", that sounds (to me) as (un)reliable as the famous "masseteric shield criterion" used to
distinguish a P. melisellensis from a P. siculus... (BTW, Werner says it's crap, and he's quite right. It is.)
In short, I'd very much appreciate if anyone could give me a bilineata vs. viridis KEY, based on morphological
and/or meristic characters only, such as Werner's melisellensis vs. siculus one.

Berislav Horvatic wrote:as Werner's melisellensis vs. siculus one.

Is that a published thing?

From what I know about viridis/bilineata in Croatia, and the green throat characteristic: there's a paper saying bilineata is only in some western parts of Croatia. My vacation cottage near Zagreb is far to the east from the bilineata areal, so bilineata shouldn't, in theory, be present there. If so, why do I find, on a regular basis through the years, juveniles with both green and not green throats there and also on other sites around Zagreb (e.g. Western Medvednica... still fairly east of the supposed viridis/bilineata border)? Check here (these are all from the surroundings of my vacation cottage): http://www.bvo.zadweb.biz.hr/pages/gmazovi/gusteri/gmazovi%20-%20gusteri%20zelembac%20zbirka_eng.htm

By my understanding, if the green throat is such a reliable characteristic, there shouldn't be so many "exceptions to the rule", yes?