Another Lacerta ID

[Jeroen Speybroeck]

More importantly, why would Zagoria have a different 'species' than Prespes, Mario? Mountains? Is there more than Böhme et al. (2007)?
(Mikrolimni is at the east banks of Mikri Prespa )

[Mario Schweiger]

ok, Mikrilimni is at the eastern banks!

Here is a unpublished part of Werners tree of Lacerta sp.
You see, the Prespa viridis are well separated from others, regardless which lacertid species you use as outgroup.
It looks like, the Pindos mountain range is a real border.
Crazy: This Bolu (TR) meridionalis sample joins always with the Cres bilis!

tree_lv.gif (6.05 KiB) Viewed 4965 times

first letter of code:
v = viridis
m = meridionalis
b = bilineata
a = adria
g = guenterpetersi

Mario

[Jeroen Speybroeck]

Are you allowed to throw this online? Is this due for publication any time soon?

Very interesting...! Not only meridionalis (Bolu), but also viridis (Hundsheim) would seem polyphyletic...

My predictable questions - what's the data? how strongly are the nodes supported?

[Peter Oefinger]

Interesting: This tree implies that the Prespa lizards are no own species, as long as you don't treat guentherpetersi as an own species. And, as long as you agree that meridionalis in Europe is no valid subspecies, it could also be questioned if the Prespa lizards are a valid subspecies - right?

[Jeroen Speybroeck]

that the Prespa lizards are no own species, as long as you don't treat guentherpetersi as an own species

"Species"!? Are we being Mr Hypersplitter today, Peter? Go get that Italian slow worm!

as long as you agree that meridionalis in Europe is no valid subspecies, it could also be questioned if the Prespa lizards are a valid subspecies - right?

Depends on the divergence level, the support of the branches and your definition of (sub)species.

[Mario Schweiger]

I´m afraid, this will not be published anymore.
It is a part of Werners total tree, mostly made for L. "trilineata".
But nearly the same results have been published now by Ahmadzadeh et al. 2013. Rapid lizard radiation lacking niche conservatism: ecological diversification within a complex landscape.- Journal of Biogeography. (I cant grab it )

Here is the tree with nodes

, there is a country code mistake, I see: Doirani is GR, not TR
Mario

[Peter Oefinger]

"Species"!? Are we being Mr Hypersplitter today, Peter? Go get that Italian slow worm!

The hypersplit happened with the stupid split of bilineata and viridis - probably making a third species for adria area necessary

[Jeroen Speybroeck]

Ahmadzadeh et al. 2013

Sent! Don't see the viri/bili stuff...

[Peter Oefinger]

Sent!

But not to me

[Jeroen Speybroeck]

Sent!

But not to me

Tsss... Now I did. It will soon be in Mario's DB for all.