Lissotriton, but which one?

[Alexandre Roux]

I found this very small newt today in a place where we can find both (L.helveticus and L.vulgaris).
The throat looks like L.helveticus but the belly make me think of L.vulgaris.

What are you thinking about?

[Liam Russell]

Got any shots of the back? The throat isn't a good guide when they are this small.

[Alexandre Roux]

This is the only shot I have for the back:

[Mario Schweiger]

See PDF-4272 in DB
Roberts, J.M. & R.A. Griffiths (1992): The dorsal stripe in newt efts: a method for distinguishing Triturus vulgaris and T. helveticus.- Amphibia-Reptilia 13: 13-19.
abstract Withi n a few weeks of metamorphosis, a dorsal stripe develops in smooth and palmate newts (Triturus vulgaris and T. helveticus). A method for distinguishing between the efts of these two species using characters based on the dorsal strip is described and evaluated. The method was tested using both experienced and inexperienced observers who, on average, classified 87% of the T. vulgaris and 97% of T. helveticus correctly. No misclassifications were made by any of the observers but a small proportion of the efts could not be classified with confidence into either category because the dorsal stripes were only faintly discernible.

[Liam Russell]

No misclassifications were made by any of the observers but a small proportion of the efts could not be classified with confidence into either category because the dorsal stripes were only faintly discernible.

I think this might fit into the "small proportion"....

Mario, is the year right for that reference? I thought it was quite an old paper.

[Alexandre Roux]

That PDF may suggest L.helveticus... I'm a little disappointed because L.vulgaris is very rare down here.

[Mario Schweiger]

Mario, is the year right for that reference? I thought it was quite an old paper.

Sorry, there was an error in the publication year in the DB.
I have changed it now to the right one - 1992

[Jeroen Speybroeck]

Looks like vulgaris to me...

[Alexander Pieh]

I agree with Jeron...

[Alexandre Roux]

The PDF criteria list seems to indicate that's L.helveticus (very common here).
L.vulgaris is only known on one pound in the department !!!
So, if it was a Smooth newt, it will be a very very very interesting note !!!