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Rana graeca?

PostPosted: Fri Nov 14, 2014 11:26 am
by clovis voyageur
Hi everyone,

I would like to know what you think about this specimen:
Here is a Rana i met last year in Bulgaria in Rila mountains, about 1800m altitude.
I found there R graeca and R dalmatica, but as the throat isn't as characteristic as the other graeca i met, i would like you opinion on this one, because R temporaria could be possible, although i didn't meet her.
Found her in a little stream.

Image
Image
Rila mountain, Bulgaria, July 2013

Re: Rana graeca?

PostPosted: Fri Nov 14, 2014 12:04 pm
by Mario Schweiger
looks like R. graeca.
Tympanium indistict and small.
The "glands" along the back seems to be wider in the shoulder area.

Mario

Re: Rana graeca?

PostPosted: Fri Nov 14, 2014 4:14 pm
by Jeroen Speybroeck
It's hard to tell but the head profile says temporaria to me...

Re: Rana graeca?

PostPosted: Sat Nov 15, 2014 12:37 am
by Bobby Bok
Admin fight!!! :lol:

My bet would also be temporaria...

Re: Rana graeca?

PostPosted: Mon Nov 17, 2014 12:19 pm
by Ilias Strachinis
This is a young Rana dalmatina to me. :-)
(Rana agilis ? how old is this?)

Re: Rana graeca?

PostPosted: Mon Nov 17, 2014 12:31 pm
by Jeroen Speybroeck
Ilias Strachinis wrote:This is a young Rana dalmatina to me. :-)

Imho, snout shape and eardrum size should be different, even in young dalmatina.

Re: Rana graeca?

PostPosted: Mon Nov 17, 2014 12:44 pm
by clovis voyageur
Ilias Strachinis wrote:Rana agilis ? how old is this?)

Oups, sorry, i always mix the french name and latin one :oops:

Ah, so i'm not the only one to doubt on the specie.

Re: Rana graeca?

PostPosted: Mon Nov 17, 2014 1:15 pm
by Kristian Munkholm
Jeroen Speybroeck wrote:
Ilias Strachinis wrote:This is a young Rana dalmatina to me. :-)

Imho, snout shape and eardrum size should be different, even in young dalmatina.


+1

I have no experience with graeca, so not qualified to comment on the graeca / temporaria question.

Re: Rana graeca?

PostPosted: Tue Nov 18, 2014 8:51 pm
by Ilias Strachinis
Jeroen Speybroeck wrote:
Ilias Strachinis wrote:This is a young Rana dalmatina to me. :-)

Imho, snout shape and eardrum size should be different, even in young dalmatina.


About eardrum, yes I agree dalmatina has a large one, but if you see this one in the photo is a little bit strange - I'm not sure where it's boundaries are, at the first glance it seems that it is that small circle, but take a better look.
The snout is very long for a temporaria. Take a look of a dalmatina from similar point of view here: http://www.herpetofauna.gr/gallery/imag ... G_1237.jpg

Bulgarian and Greek temporarias have shorter snouts (they look like toads :-) ) and usually darker throats, even the small ones. They also have yellowish hint legs (pubic area).
I attach some photos of them from the Greek side of Rhodope:

IMG_6838 copy.jpg

IMG_6963 copy.jpg

IMG_7230 copy.jpg

IMG_7236 copy.jpg


Clovis do you have any other photos of the animal from a different POV?

Re: Rana graeca?

PostPosted: Wed Nov 19, 2014 12:21 pm
by Jeroen Speybroeck
Which species is this?

Image