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from a non amphibians expert: Rana temporaria male

I was asking Andrej Stojanov and got the answer: definitively Rana temporia (so the winners are: Jeroen and Bobby )

Here the original answer (in German language):
Falls du die zwei Fotos, die ganz oben bei dieser Forumdiskussion stehen meinst, die ein kleines Tier zeigen - das ist definitiv Rana temporaria. Ich weiss nicht wo genau dieser Kollege in 1800 m (Rila-Gebirge) Rana graeca gesehen haben muss, doch da liegt ganz sicher eine Verwechslung vor. Dort gibt's keine graecas. Sogar die dalmatinas sind sehr rar auf dieser Hoehe.
- Bei den kleinen Tieren koennen verschiedene Koerperproportionen duraus anders als bei den Adulti aussehen. Trotzdem ist das Tympanum in wirklichkeit nicht so klein, wie du meinst (kann leider das Bild nicht weiter vergroessern).
- Noch was - sogar bei dieser Koerpergroesse zeigt die Kehle bei den graeca's eine voellig andere Zeichnung. Die Grundfarbe ist sehr dunkel, bis fast schwarz mit einer hellen Mittellinie. Was diese Besonderheit angeht, konnten wir bis heute keine Ausnahme feststellen.
Fazit: Rana temporaria
Ich schicke dir hiermit ein Foto, das ich im September 2014 mit meinem Handy gemacht habe. Es handelt sich um ein vergleichbar grosses Tier (Rana graeca).

Mario Schweiger wrote:from a non amphibians expert: Rana temporaria male

Yes! Unless anyone has evidence that Montenegro dalmatina have short legs, highly mottled bellies etc.

It's maybe a pity that Andrej did not argue in more detail why it is not dalmatina, but the dalmatina-like eardrum and snout shape of my frog illustrate that (perhaps together with Podarcis siculus) temporaria are the kings of variation among European herps. All over Europe & even in proportions of body parts. This is especially true for montane populations. In the western Pyrenees, notably long-legged temporaria are also often mixed up with dalmatina.

Well Andrej Stojanov says that this is not a graeca so it should be a temporaria, right? He also says that the eardrum isn't that small as it seems (am I translating right again?). He excluded dalmatina because of the altitude. I've seen both dalmatina and graeca at 1900 at the Greek borders with FYROM, and in good/big populations. I still think the snout is too long for a temporaria and I would expect a rougher skin for a temporaria. The throats of temporarias I see in Greece (and in photos from Bulgaria) are very similar to graecas (heavily spotted). Jeroen that photo of yours with the temporaria is first on the line in my website http://www.herpetofauna.gr/index.php?mo ... 32&sid=219
I would like to see some more photos of the animal from different POVs to feel sure enough. I don't insist though. 3 experts see temporaria at the moment, so I'm the weakest link

Andrej said (wrote), at this altitude (1800 m asl) there are no graecas and dalmatina are very rare there.

I have only pictures from 1 individual from Varnous mountain, close to the FYROM border (Agios Germanos), at approx. 1000 m asl.
It had a spotted throat, but the pointed snout looks like the same like here in Austria.

So to add either more confusion or, hopefully, a more definitive answer, which species does this small frog represent? I have my own assumptions but would be interested to hear your thoughts, and reasoning. Found in wet grassland, around 1,000m at the northern end of the Pirin Mountains, Bulgaria.

Also tempo, I'd say.

That one from Central-Albania? Around 1200 m a.s.l.

Mario I meant heavily spotted like these ones :
http://en.balcanica.info/2-2444 (Stara Planina)
http://en.balcanica.info/2-2819 (Rila)
http://en.balcanica.info/2-9328 (Rila)

Yours is clearly a dalmatina, the throat looks very normal.
Daniel's is temporaria
Edvard's: graeca

Ilias,

what do you think on this one (youngster, approx. 3 cm).


Its from Greece (I know the very exact location )

Mario