Rana graeca?

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Re: Rana graeca?

Postby Jeroen Speybroeck » Tue Jul 11, 2017 9:03 pm

Ilian Velikov wrote:The first one is too small and at a bad angle for ID but I'd say all the rest are dalmatina.

Agreed. Also, flooded meadows are very much dalmatina terrain and hardly ever that of graeca.
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Re: Rana graeca?

Postby Michal Szkudlarek » Tue Jul 11, 2017 9:29 pm

update: i took precise photo of eardrum and it is smaller than an eye, so graeca?
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Re: Rana graeca?

Postby Ilian Velikov » Tue Jul 11, 2017 9:41 pm

Michal Szkudlarek wrote:update: i took precise photo of eardrum and it is smaller than an eye, so graeca?


No. Still dalmatina. As Jeroen pointed out it's not the right habitat. Also if you find big numbers of small froglets at the same place it is almost certain they came from the same brood/clutch hence the same species. It is unlikely that you'd get a mixed "flock" of two or more species that metamorphosed at exactly the same time and place. Eardrum is irrelevant for ID in such small individuals. Proportions of the babies of pretty much every living thing including humans is very different from adults. It's like using the leg length for ID in such a small frog.
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Re: Rana graeca?

Postby Michal Szkudlarek » Tue Jul 11, 2017 9:53 pm

Ilian Velikov wrote:
Michal Szkudlarek wrote:update: i took precise photo of eardrum and it is smaller than an eye, so graeca?


No. Still dalmatina. As Jeroen pointed out it's not the right habitat. Also if you find big numbers of small froglets at the same place it is almost certain they came from the same brood/clutch hence the same species. It is unlikely that you'd get a mixed "flock" of two or more species that metamorphosed at exactly the same time and place. Eardrum is irrelevant for ID in such small individuals. Proportions of the babies of pretty much every living thing including humans is very different from adults. It's like using the leg length for ID in such a small frog.

damn :(
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Re: Rana graeca?

Postby Alexandre Roux » Wed Jul 12, 2017 8:44 am

First one does not looks like Rana to me... more like Pelophylax
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Re: Rana graeca?

Postby Michal Szkudlarek » Wed Jul 12, 2017 10:19 am

is it R. dalmatina too? :|
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Ilian Velikov wrote:Eardrum is irrelevant for ID in such small individuals.

you could have written it in the book
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Re: Rana graeca?

Postby Ilian Velikov » Wed Jul 12, 2017 11:23 am

Michal Szkudlarek wrote:Ilian Velikov wrote:
Eardrum is irrelevant for ID in such small individuals.

you could have written it in the book


I didn't write the book.
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Re: Rana graeca?

Postby Clive Brignull » Wed Jul 12, 2017 6:21 pm

Did i read somewhere that in R. graeca,the distance between nostrils is greater than the distance between nostril and eye. Not so in R. dalmatina. ??
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Re: Rana graeca?

Postby Michal Szkudlarek » Sun Jul 16, 2017 4:29 pm

Rana dalmatina?
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Re: Rana graeca?

Postby Frank Deschandol » Mon Jul 17, 2017 5:38 pm

The determination of brown frog tadepoles only can be carried out with specimens >10mm... Usually, to be 100% sure, you need a dorsal, lateral and ventral view, and also the mouth (buccal floor)...

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That's why I've never been interested in larvae ;)
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