Page 4 of 5

Re: Rana graeca?

PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 9:03 pm
by Jeroen Speybroeck
Ilian Velikov wrote:The first one is too small and at a bad angle for ID but I'd say all the rest are dalmatina.

Agreed. Also, flooded meadows are very much dalmatina terrain and hardly ever that of graeca.

Re: Rana graeca?

PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 9:29 pm
by Michal Szkudlarek
update: i took precise photo of eardrum and it is smaller than an eye, so graeca?
Image

Re: Rana graeca?

PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 9:41 pm
by Ilian Velikov
Michal Szkudlarek wrote:update: i took precise photo of eardrum and it is smaller than an eye, so graeca?


No. Still dalmatina. As Jeroen pointed out it's not the right habitat. Also if you find big numbers of small froglets at the same place it is almost certain they came from the same brood/clutch hence the same species. It is unlikely that you'd get a mixed "flock" of two or more species that metamorphosed at exactly the same time and place. Eardrum is irrelevant for ID in such small individuals. Proportions of the babies of pretty much every living thing including humans is very different from adults. It's like using the leg length for ID in such a small frog.

Re: Rana graeca?

PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 9:53 pm
by Michal Szkudlarek
Ilian Velikov wrote:
Michal Szkudlarek wrote:update: i took precise photo of eardrum and it is smaller than an eye, so graeca?


No. Still dalmatina. As Jeroen pointed out it's not the right habitat. Also if you find big numbers of small froglets at the same place it is almost certain they came from the same brood/clutch hence the same species. It is unlikely that you'd get a mixed "flock" of two or more species that metamorphosed at exactly the same time and place. Eardrum is irrelevant for ID in such small individuals. Proportions of the babies of pretty much every living thing including humans is very different from adults. It's like using the leg length for ID in such a small frog.

damn :(

Re: Rana graeca?

PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 8:44 am
by Alexandre Roux
First one does not looks like Rana to me... more like Pelophylax

Re: Rana graeca?

PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 10:19 am
by Michal Szkudlarek
is it R. dalmatina too? :|
Image

Ilian Velikov wrote:Eardrum is irrelevant for ID in such small individuals.

you could have written it in the book

Re: Rana graeca?

PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 11:23 am
by Ilian Velikov
Michal Szkudlarek wrote:Ilian Velikov wrote:
Eardrum is irrelevant for ID in such small individuals.

you could have written it in the book


I didn't write the book.

Re: Rana graeca?

PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 6:21 pm
by Clive Brignull
Did i read somewhere that in R. graeca,the distance between nostrils is greater than the distance between nostril and eye. Not so in R. dalmatina. ??

Re: Rana graeca?

PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 4:29 pm
by Michal Szkudlarek
Rana dalmatina?
Image

Re: Rana graeca?

PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 5:38 pm
by Frank Deschandol
The determination of brown frog tadepoles only can be carried out with specimens >10mm... Usually, to be 100% sure, you need a dorsal, lateral and ventral view, and also the mouth (buccal floor)...

Image

That's why I've never been interested in larvae ;)