New or Not

You have a picture of an amphibian or reptile and do not know, what it is! Ask here

New or Not

Postby Clive Brignull » Sat Jul 18, 2015 9:18 pm

Sitting here planning my next trip and what new species i should seach for i now realise that a few of my past finds/photo's now relate to newly reconised species. But heres four that i am not sure about. Tree frog - north of Varna, Bulgaria / Slow worm - Near Istanbul, Turkey also Eastern rhodopes, Bulgaria. / Spanish psammodromus, Near Almeria, Spain. It's this twitching bug thing that i think we all get once the the more common species have been found.
Clive Brignull
 
Posts: 55
Joined: Wed Oct 19, 2011 11:51 am
Hometown: Braintree
country: England

Re: New or Not

Postby Clive Brignull » Thu Jul 23, 2015 5:57 pm

OK No takers on this one. I believe the Bulgarian Tree frog to be H.orientalis, Turkish Slow worm to be A. colchina, Bulgarian Slow worm to be A.graeca in that region, Spanish psammadromus, P.hispanica in that region. ?????
Clive Brignull
 
Posts: 55
Joined: Wed Oct 19, 2011 11:51 am
Hometown: Braintree
country: England

Re: New or Not

Postby Paul Lambourne » Thu Jul 23, 2015 8:28 pm

Clive,

Just assuming an animal is a certain species due to the country you saw it in is perhaps not the most accurate means of identification. Several of the countries you mention have more than one representative of slow worm and tree frog for example, and without detailed comparison to a good field guide, positive ID is next to impossible.

Fortunately an exceptional guide to all European herpetofauna is about to be published :D :D
User avatar
Paul Lambourne
 
Posts: 590
Joined: Thu Jan 13, 2011 8:47 pm
Hometown: London
country: England

Re: New or Not

Postby Clive Brignull » Thu Jul 23, 2015 8:48 pm

But surely many closely related species can only be identified by their range. European Hyla for one. What else can you as without DNA analysis etc. there are few if any visible differences.
Clive Brignull
 
Posts: 55
Joined: Wed Oct 19, 2011 11:51 am
Hometown: Braintree
country: England

Re: New or Not

Postby Paul Lambourne » Thu Jul 23, 2015 9:08 pm

Clive,

I agree in some respects, however several of the species you mention overlap in range, and IMHO only comparison with scientific papers or good field guides can confirm ID. (as DNA is not available to us). Slow worms I find particularly difficult, positive ID of Bulgaria region only being confirmed by mid body scale counts.

Cheers Paul
User avatar
Paul Lambourne
 
Posts: 590
Joined: Thu Jan 13, 2011 8:47 pm
Hometown: London
country: England

Re: New or Not

Postby Clive Brignull » Thu Jul 23, 2015 9:24 pm

I was hoping that the areas quoted were within known regions for positive ID. Going back on the genus Hyla although thay have introgression zones your can be fairly sure the one you find in Milan will be H intermediate and the one you find in Lyon will be H.arborea.
Clive Brignull
 
Posts: 55
Joined: Wed Oct 19, 2011 11:51 am
Hometown: Braintree
country: England

Re: New or Not

Postby Paul Lambourne » Thu Jul 23, 2015 9:43 pm

Clive,

You did not mention Milan? Many species I would agree can be identified by range.. Pelophylax cretensis etc.. but as I mentioned IMHO slow worms, wall lizards, tree frogs etc can be problematic to positively ID by range alone.

At the end of the day its a personal thing, if you are happy with the ID it is a matter for you. Many people have differing criteria to count something on their tick list.

Cheers

Paul
User avatar
Paul Lambourne
 
Posts: 590
Joined: Thu Jan 13, 2011 8:47 pm
Hometown: London
country: England

Re: New or Not

Postby Clive Brignull » Thu Jul 23, 2015 10:45 pm

I think your missing the point paul. Milan and Lyon were examples only to show that away from introgression zones species recognition is possible. If the areas mentioned for each of those species quoted are in introgression zones then i agree no firm ID can be presumed. But are they or not ?.That is what i am asking. Anyone else with an opinion regarding my original question.
Clive Brignull
 
Posts: 55
Joined: Wed Oct 19, 2011 11:51 am
Hometown: Braintree
country: England

Re: New or Not

Postby Paul Lambourne » Fri Jul 24, 2015 10:36 am

Clive,

To spell it out to you, all the species you mentioned in the areas you mention have the potential for "introgression zones"
User avatar
Paul Lambourne
 
Posts: 590
Joined: Thu Jan 13, 2011 8:47 pm
Hometown: London
country: England

Re: New or Not

Postby Sean Cole » Fri Jul 24, 2015 11:55 am

Sounds like a bit of a spurious way to improve your list, retrospectively ticking things you're not even sure of!

Haha, Clive, can I give you a list of places I've been so you can tell me what I've seen, without the provision of photo's to get in the way of improving my list?

Thanks

Sean
Sean Cole
 
Posts: 30
Joined: Sat May 05, 2012 12:13 am
Hometown: Kidderminster
country: England

Next

Return to Herp ID´s

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 9 guests