Lacerta bilineata or L. viridis

[Jochen Zauner]

Hi everyone,

The following photos show young Lacerta bilineata, but the last two are taken at Plitvice-National-Park in Croatia. Should this not be Lacerta viridis?

Does everyone know the exactly border?

First one is from Istrien/Bale:

IstrienBale.JPG

next near Rijeka:

Rijeka.JPG

and now Plitvice

P1000917.JPG

Can you help me?

Greats Jochen

P1000918.JPG

[Peter Oefinger]

Yes, they all should be L. viridis, bilineata is further wets (Italian border).
See here: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... iridis.png

[Mladen Zadravec]

I wouldn't bee too quick about accepting the info on Wikipedia about herps (or some other subjects, for that matter...) as facts without checking it on more reliable sources... I've encountered some... dubious... statements put there as facts before...

Also, based on some features mentioned in Arnold & Ovenden (the Collins field guide) and in our own Red Book, I've caught & seen green lizards here around Zagreb (both W and E Medvednica) that looked like bilineata...
Most Green Lizards from E Medvednica can be seen here:
http://www.bvo.zadweb.biz.hr/pages/gmaz ... ka_eng.htm

If anyone can clarify my dilemma, I'd be grateful also

And on what information is that map based? Who actually made it and did the study? The exact viridis-bilineata border in Cro is a mistery to a lot of us here (at least that's what I keep hearing...).

[Mario Schweiger]

Hello,

First: Not all are sure about the species status of Lacerta bilineata, maybe it would be better to consider it as ssp. of viridis.
If one accepts L. bilineata as a full species, there should be 3 "new" species on Balkan peninsula at least. Even the south Italian chloronota - new a ssp. of bilineata - should be a full species.

Now on the distribution, respectively on the eastern border of "bilineata".
Istria and Cres are inhabited by true "bilineata". But, maybe it goes down along the Kvarner east coast to the Vinodol.
See:
Tvrtkovic, N., B. Lazar, S. Tome & I. Grbac (1998): The western green lizard, Lacerta (viridis) bilineata Daudin 1804 (Sauria: Lacertidae) in Slovenia and Croatia.- Nat. Croat. 7(4): 363 - 369. -- PDF-0321

BÖHME, M. U., U. FRITZ, T. KOTENKO, G. DZUKIC, K. LJUBISAVLJEVIC, N. TZANKOV & T.U. BERENDONK (2007): Phylogeography and cryptic variation within the Lacerta viridis complex (Lacertidae, Reptilia).- Zoologica Scripta, 36: 119–131. -- PDF-0886
separated the Dalmatinian and Ionian coastal lizards as own species: Lacerta aff. bilineta (more related to bilineata than viridis).

But the "NP Plitvice" Lacertas should be viridis, but without any data from lizards from that particular area, just from distribution.

Mario

PS: Fieldherping.eu members have access to the database and may download the PDF files!

[Jeroen Speybroeck]

Mario,
Why could this strange clade of Böhme et al. (2007) not be part of bilineata? If so, the range of bilineata would be significantly larger and that of viridis smaller, I guess.
Why should chloronota be a full species? Do you deduce this from the Böhme et al. ref too?
g's,
J.

[Mario Schweiger]

Jeroen,

no, all this, written above are "our own" newest data.
But sorry, I´m not willing to "publish" this here now.
We hope, after getting some missing data, the paper will be ready at the end of next year.

Mario

[Jochen Zauner]

Hallo,

thanks for your writings. I see there is no identifikation possible, not yet.
I´m looking forward to the paper Mario wrote

Greats

[Jeroen Speybroeck]

no, all this, written above are "our own" newest data.
But sorry, I´m not willing to "publish" this here now.
We hope, after getting some missing data, the paper will be ready at the end of next year.

That's what I call a true brain teaser.