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Hi,

I stumbled upon a misid'ed French snake on a Danish forum today.

They had it down as Natrix maura

To me it looks more like girondica but I'm really not comfortable saying that with any degree of certainty based on this pic.

Anyone?

Kristian Munkholm wrote:They had it down as Natrix maura
To me it looks more like girondica but I'm really not comfortable saying that with any
degree of certainty based on this pic.
Anyone?

What is your question actually? Maura, girondica or austriaca? The latter is in the title...
for what reason?

girondica or austriaca.

It seems quite clear to me me that it is Coronella.

Clearly a girondica.
It lacks the typical dark spot over the head of austriaca.
Head shape is of girondica.
The neck is subtle, very distinct from head and body and not short and barely distinct as it would be in austriaca.
The dark transversal bars/markings on the back form a typical pattern/design for girondica.

P.s. It's a small girondica maybe with some prey in its stomach. A tiny snake like this one was my one and only road kill of my life: I saw it late while driving, between sun and shadows. Too late: I went back but the small snake was killed hit by a wheel. Inside its stomach was a tiny baby muralis!

Thanks for confirmation, Ruggero.
All of your points match my own thoughts quite well..
Only ever having seen one girondica myself and without the textbook keys visible in the picture I wasn't sure enough that I'd want to pass on my ID unconfirmed, though.

Kristian Munkholm wrote:To me it looks more like girondica but I'm really not comfortable saying that with any degree of certainty based on this pic.

+1

Two typical examples of Coronella austriaca of approximately the same age of our small girondica (the second one somewhat older actually):




The (almost) totally black head on younger individuals is a simple distinction mark... even without considering the rest of the differences!

Yes, I know the younger austriaca individuals typically have that black head.

This was perhaps the main reason I thought it was girondica.





Sometimes it's not quite as pronounced / extensive.



Sometimes they are more brown.



I thought the markings - as you mentioned - were more typical girondica as well (though not as pronounced as often seen).

I don't have enough experience witht the two species to be a good judge of the differences in head shape.

I had noticed the rather distinct neck and thought that quite unusual for austriaca, wasn't even aware that was typical of girondica. Thanks for pointing it out.

...and the only girondica I've seen - an adult.

Another difference I can notice, but I'm not totally sure about austriaca, is the following one: girondica, when captured, can release a very bad smelling substance from anal glands. Something bad like natrix smell, but different.
As I can remember, I have not noticed this fact in austriaca. Have you?
If austriaca does not release smells from anal glands at all, this is another sign they are probably not related and belong to a completely different genus...

P.s. And, last but not least: girondica is largely a nocturnal snake! I don't know if one could say the same for austriaca: I've never met an austriaca in the dark... Yes: they have in common the same size, but nothing else I think...

Ruggero Morimando wrote:Another difference I can notice, but I'm not totally sure about austriaca, is the following one: girondica, when captured, can release a very bad smelling substance from anal glands. Something bad like natrix
smell, but different.
As I can remember, I have not noticed this fact in austriaca. Have you?

I haven't. And I've never heard of it from anyone else who handles snakes in the wild.
Austriaca is "clean" (in that respect), for what I know. But let's hear the others as well.