for experts: berus or natrix???

[Daniel Bohle]

Ok, two years ago I found these two pieces of a DOR snake.
download link for all files: http://www.file-upload.net/download-276 ... 4.zip.html
(push the button "download" with the green arrow on the left side to start download and wait a few seconds!)

is it natrix or a berus???
for berus it would be a new location - but inside the knowen distribution.
I already posted this somewhere else two years ago but I need to ask again...(sorry Mario, I just need a second opinion I still can´t sleep;-)

...because I have a new idea what it is. but first I would like to hear some of your opinions.

thanks!

[Mario Schweiger]

for me its Natrix.
I think I can see a part of a hemipenis (right bottom corner). So the tail would be much to long for a viper

Mario

[Daniel Bohle]

The tail, I don´t care about that really long thing

Why I ask again is because of this. See pic:

http://www3.pic-upload.de/20.08.10/7r28lnfwd7v6.jpg

It´s a dorsal view of the area close to the cloaca.

and nearly the middle

http://www3.pic-upload.de/20.08.10/waaeo6jgqa.jpg

[Andre Schmid]

Hi everybody,
I hope it´s ok to use this topic for my question....

Yesterday I was in a new terrain to search for whatever I found....

sorry for bad picture but I think you can see the terrain

That habitat looks not relly typically for natrix or ?

I found a lot of Lacerta agilis and one Rana temporaria and this shed under a stone. Now my question...what kind of shed is it ? Natrix natrix or Vipera berus ?

Again sorry for the bad pics.

[Daniel Bohle]

you still have that skin?
because I just have two samples, both fresh out of the nature a few weeks old. the natrix skin still stinks (not the flavor we knew from catching them!), the berus skin did not smell
no joke.

[Andre Schmid]

you still have that skin?

Yes I have it.

because I just have two samples, both fresh out of the nature a few weeks old. the natrix skin still stinks (not the flavor we knew from catching them!), the berus skin did not smell
no joke.

Of course the shed smells like something a little bit, but without a sure berus shed to compare its difficult for me

[Daniel Bohle]

the berus skin smells nearly not, natrix smells very strong, much stronger than a cornsnake skin!
but I just have one sample of each - I should make a field test. these days is natrix shedding time. for berus its a bit late now.