Viper underwater...?

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Viper underwater...?

Postby Ilian Velikov » Sun Dec 21, 2014 3:14 pm

I stumbled upon a series of photos of Vipera seoanei apparently eating a newt underwater! :o

I've never heard of vipers hunting or eating anything underwater, so I was quite surprised. On second examination of all the photos I think this might have been set up with a dead viper and a dead newt. The way the snake has it's mouth open on most of the photos and the way it is tucked under a branch look quite suspicious...

What do you think?

Here are the photos: http://www.fotosearch.fr/photos-images/vipera-seoanei.html
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Re: Viper underwater...?

Postby Robin Duborget » Sun Dec 21, 2014 5:22 pm

Yes I agree with you the viper seems to be stuck under the branch ...
Also the newt posture is quite odd.

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Re: Viper underwater...?

Postby Matthieu Berroneau » Sun Dec 21, 2014 5:36 pm

Yes, both seem to be dead...

Otherwise, 4 years ago, we accidently catch an asp viper in watertrap (with underwater entrance) during Emys orbicularis survey.
So a viper underwater is possible... but a viper hunting underwater...
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Re: Viper underwater...?

Postby Matthijs Hollanders » Sun Dec 21, 2014 5:53 pm

Fake to me!
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Re: Viper underwater...?

Postby Gabriel Martínez » Mon Dec 22, 2014 12:27 pm

I have talked with some friend and nobody knows about Vipera sp. entering in the water for hunting newts that are swimming inside. And viper seems dead. It must be any sick man that used both animals dead (maybe he kill them?) to get an "amazing"(?) photo...
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Re: Viper underwater...?

Postby Maarten Gilbert » Mon Dec 22, 2014 2:12 pm

The static postures of the animals in those pictures look quite suspicious indeed...

This reminds me of a juvenile V. berus I observed near a small water body a couple of years ago. The animal was very active and it was voluntarily entering the water, it even submerged completely. I didn't observe it catching any prey, so I'm not 100% sure whether the animal was hunting, but it looked like foraging behavior, so I wouldn't rule out that vipers (or at least V. berus) can look for prey under water.

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Re: Viper underwater...?

Postby Will Atkins » Mon Dec 22, 2014 4:42 pm

there are several interesting photos in the English book 'the Private Life of Adders' by Rodger McPhail that feature neo adders feeding on common frog metamorphs in the Forest of Bowland (NW England) but none of actually feeding underwater - I agree that the photos in question look distinctly dodgy...
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Re: Viper underwater...?

Postby Gabriel Martínez » Mon Dec 22, 2014 11:45 pm

Wow! Impressive photos Maarten. That pose is more typical in Natrix. If first photo is in situ seems that Viper was looking for tadpoles or something like that. So maybe is possible that some vipers feed on tadpoles and "aquatic" newts :shock:
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Re: Viper underwater...?

Postby Ilian Velikov » Tue Dec 23, 2014 12:59 pm

Thank you all for confirming my suspicions about these photos.

Vipers entering the water is not a surprise as they do that probably more often then we think. I've seen photos and I've heard of sightings of swimming vipers on multiple occasions. I thought they might be doing this to cool down in countries where summer is very hot e.g. Bulgaria where ammodytes have been seen swimming althought this doesn't explain the affinity of berus to water in cooler regions...However, I wasn't sure about diving and I've definitely haven't heard about hunting or feeding in the water.

Matthieu, your experience confirms that they do actually dive.

Will, I have the book you are talking about but all those froglets seem to have been caught on land, or at least they've been eaten on land for sure...

Maarten, very good documentation indeed! This one does really look like it's foraging in the water. Very interesting! So it's possible that juveniles do hunt for small aquatic prey in the water. However, I think it's very unlikely that they feed underwater...even Natrix consume their prey on land.

It would be interesting to see/hear of more cases related to this!
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Re: Viper underwater...?

Postby Jeroen Speybroeck » Tue Dec 23, 2014 1:33 pm

Ilian Velikov wrote:althought this doesn't explain the affinity of berus to water in cooler regions...

I'm willing to bet that every heathland in Europe can have summer temperatures above the physiological optimum of berus. This is not the most thermophilic species.
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