snake species and their temper

[Jeroen Speybroeck]

Still, it puzzles me that such power has no defensive aspect

It is strange but they do use that power to roll like crazy and to use their tail like a whip, all defensive aspects.

True. Let's be happy they don't bite. I always "feel sorry" for Anguis and Pseudopus, they seem so helpless

[Berislav Horvatic]

What the evolutionary advantage of a certain characteristic is, is IMHO not always a relevant question to ask.

Would you still agree that it's the FIRST reasonable question to ask? If you find no answer, then you try to
reason further... if there is any "further" in the first place... IMHO, there isn't, one should just look more
closely at what the evolutionary advantage might be. It's not always obvious, but, "Search, and you'll find".

By "evolutionary advantage" I mean anything that promotes either the survival or the mating success, or both.
Not only survival! That was, after all, Darwin's idea. If the females prefer a certain colouration in males, then
it does have evolutionary advantage. Avoiding predators and eating enough are not the only things in life...

[Berislav Horvatic]

I agree with Bert that biting is not per se the best option for any animal to do. Spending venom comes at a fitness cost. Biting itself costs energy. Fleeing or playing dead may be preferable.

Venom comes expensive, and should be (and is) used sparingly, but I think Carl meant biting in general,
nonvenomous snakes in particular. The very act of biting does cost energy, but if you have been grabbed
by a predator ready to eat you, saving energy by NOT biting seems a little bit... like the old joke of a guy
who refused the last cigarette before being shot, because it's bad for health...

[Thomas Bader]

Some of my experiences:
Never ever bitten by: natrix, tessellata, Pseudopus
only 1 bite out of many handlings: Eryx! also another friend was bitten in Greece (terrible bites!!)
each with 1 bite: Blanus, Anguis and Typhlops!! each without serious pain
ravergieri (1): wild biting - nummifer (1): calm
najadum (many): so or so - ventromaculatus (1): biting - rhodorachis (some) mostly calm

Vipers in general: very different, Vipers handled by a snake hook were very often calm or came down quickly, vipers taken by a nipper (eventhough sofly handled and metal protection by insulation) were mostly fierce and biting eg Bitis, Cerastes and did not settle down

[Bert Vandebosch]

Would you still agree that it's the FIRST reasonable question to ask? If you find no answer, then you try
to reason further...

Yes it is a reasonable question. But do you find the answer: "this question is not relevant in this particular case." a reasonable answer?

By "evolutionary advantage" I mean anything that promotes either the survival or the mating success, or both.
Not only survival! That was, after all, Darwin's idea. If the females prefer a certain colouration in males, than
it does have evolutionary advantage. Avoiding predators is not the only thing in life.

Ofcourse! True but again also not always relevant.

I never saw the biting or not in terms of saving energy. What I mean is: What IF biting or not in most cases not influence the outcome. What IF once grabbed by a predator, they almost always get eaten anyway. In that case you shouldn't try to explain it in terms of evolutionary advantage! Other characteristics like camouflage or secretive life style might be much more important.

[Neil Rowntree]

I'm sure I remember someone on here saying they'd been bitten by a Pseudopus...i'd probably prefer a bite as opposed to their usual sludge-fest. Might have that same view regarding Natrix natrix too.

E.quatuorlineata - Really wanted to see one of these guys as they'd seemed quite relaxed based on other trip reports. However, the first one I found in Corfu was an angry bugger - it made a run/lunge at me as I approached and all I managed was this blurry effort:

The others I have found since then have been a pleasure to work with...

Neil

[Carl Corbidge]

but I think Carl meant biting in general,
nonvenomous snakes in particular. The very act of biting does cost energy, but if you have been grabbed
by a predator ready to eat you, saving energy by NOT biting seems a little bit...

Yeah I was talking about biting in general of non-venomous species, some of the other things non-biters do in defence must use far more energy than biting, try hyperventilating for a few minutes whilst occasionally throwing yourself forwards. However not biting (along with lots of other life strategies) seems to work for grass snakes because they are one of the most widespread European species.

[Jeroen Speybroeck]

I think we shouldn't overestimate the role of anti-predator behaviour (by which I mean - when caught, not avoidance strategies) in the persistence of a population.

[Berislav Horvatic]

Yes it is a reasonable question. But do you find the answer: "this question is not relevant in this particular case." a reasonable answer?

No, I don't. I'm a talibanic Darwinian mujahid, and I believe in the teachings of our Great Leader that, STATISTICALLY
(= evolutionarily), nothing survives as just a "whim of Nature" - in the long run, of course. A particular individual animal
can make a most "stupid" move in it's individual life, but, statistically (evolutionarilly), it gets "punished". Darwin äkbär!

I never saw the biting or not in terms of saving energy.

That's what Jeroen wrote, not you.

What I mean is: What IF biting or not in most cases not influence the outcome. What IF once grabbed by a predator, they almost always get eaten anyway. In that case you shouldn't try to explain it in terms of evolutionary advantage! Other characteristics like camouflage or secretive life style might be much more important.

What IF biting a "suspected" predator (like us), who maybe - just maybe (!) - actually won't eat you after all (you can never
be sure of that happy outcome, of course, but you might still hope for the best...), might be a PROVOCATION, a disastrous
one, doing you more harm than good, that is, provoking the "bad big guy" to "retaliate" and ... than what?
Meaning: If I grab an Elaphe 4lineata, as gently as possible, it will only hiss for a few moments, and then relax. But if a
bird of prey, like e.g. a Common buzzard (Buteo buteo), tries the same, much less gently, I expect the snake to use its
teeth immediately, and fiercelly. There is a difference, and I feel (no scientific arguments!) that the snake might also
feel the difference and act accordingly. (Actually, there's a publication on an "encounter" like that, only I don't have it
at hand at the momnent, but Mario will probably supply the PDF number.)

[Berislav Horvatic]

I think we shouldn't overestimate the role of anti-predator behaviour (by which I mean - when caught, not avoidance
strategies) in the persistence of a population.

Never mind the PERSISTENCE of POPULATIONS, what wer'e talking about here & now are our personal experiences
with certain individual members of that populations... how they behave (or "misbehave") when grabbed and handled
and herpeto-ikebana-ized and photographed... After all, we are not predators, and maybe - just maybe - they might
also recognize the fact, and respond differently to our "intrusion", rather than to actual predation. I strongly hope
they do, as it would ease my conscience a little bit... (And yours, and everyone's...)