What is proper field herping conduct?

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Re: What is proper field herping conduct?

Postby Peter Oefinger » Wed Dec 09, 2009 11:49 am

Great comments, guys! :lol:
@Jeroen: You know, I appreciate being bored by your reports! :)
@Jürgen: You are right – let’s stop herping and watch some soccer games on TV instead! :mrgreen:

To be serious: Personally, I don ‘t think that we really need a code of conduct. Everyone in this forum knows that he should try to minimize any interference in the local ecosystems. On the other hand, Homo sapiens is – from an ethology perspective – an opportunistic species, always trying to find anything new. Therefore, we are all addicted to collecting pictures of herptile species. It’s in human nature.

But anyhow, I sometimes wonder what’s the sense in doing so. Until 2008, there were only a few resources like Jeroen’s site or herpetofauna.at for trip reports – Meanwhile, there are numerous reports on the EFHC. So, what will be the future? My preliminary (personal) answer is trying to find something new (new behaviour, new perspective, new way of seeing things???). :?

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Re: What is proper field herping conduct?

Postby Jürgen Gebhart » Wed Dec 16, 2009 9:11 am

Peter you are right, Humans are "Hunter and Collector" especially man`s ;)
So I think some of these pics are trophys.

If you just wait for something special or new things, life will be boring because you have to wait a long time!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

75 Days = 01.03.2010 :cry: :evil: :cry:
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Re: What is proper field herping conduct?

Postby Attila Kobori » Wed Dec 16, 2009 1:41 pm

I think that if you find an animal on a road with rather dense traffic, for example, you SHOULD catch it, rather than leaving it on the road (especially slow moving reptiles, but sometimes also snakes). One year ago I found a Zamenis longissimus on a street in Vienna. I caught it and released it in a habitat where I have seen the species before. I think things like that should be no problem.
Catching lizards is often harder than waiting and have a nice in-situ shot so I rarely catch them (if, only to measure them and make some detailed photos).

I never go herping on private grounds/gardens whithout permission of the owner (or at least I hope so).

Furthermore, if I catch an animal, I always release it at exactly the same spot where I caught it, if possible (except for herps on roads, etc).

Whether I catch a snake or not always depends on the snakes behaviour, the weather and temperature. Also, when I have more time, I would catch less herps than when I am in a hurry.

I would NEVER catch an animal while feeding, mating, giving birth, laying eggs, etc. Sometimes it is also more interesting to watch them while hunting, for example.

So I think it should be no problem to catch herps for a few minutes, releasing them, everything whithout stress or harm, neither for the animal, nor for the herper.
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Re: What is proper field herping conduct?

Postby Jeroen Speybroeck » Wed Dec 16, 2009 7:44 pm

Attila Kobori wrote:I think that if you find an animal on a road with rather dense traffic, for example, you SHOULD catch it, rather than leaving it on the road


Too bad that roads have a certain attractivity to these beasts as warm surfaces and vantage points...
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Re: What is proper field herping conduct?

Postby Mikkel Frederiksen » Tue Jan 26, 2010 1:13 pm

Jeroen Speybroeck wrote:Leaving the lacerta.de discussion behind, I would like to hear your thoughts about how to behave during field herping. Some field herpers never catch or touch any animal, but that leaves them with only very short snake observations, I guess. So, what's your opinion on good or not?
What would the impact be of catching a snake on the survival of that animal? Do you catch any snake, even if it's the 24th ammodytes of the day? In our team, we have some differing opinions about that sometimes, because some are fanatic snake hunters, who like the kick of catching. Good or bad?
Let's just hear each other out, without blaming anyone.
How do you feel about entering private property while herping? And nature reserves? And what about the legal aspects of catching?


I have not read all of the text in this subject , so i will only answer to the original question! I have not red the text and do not answer to the discussion in this subject

Do you mean catching or handling?? – I’m not sure?:
(I proberly talk about alot of offtopic stuff that was not in your question, but thats just me, i talk alot... And i proberly have some different opinions, but I wantet to state my opinion anyway )

But here is the replie:

Capturing:
I don’t think anybody should catch a wild snake (with the thought of bringing it home) without it dealing with conservation or research. Animals are beautiful in the nature and should not be held captive or taken from their natural inviroment at any moment. In Denmark our N. Natrix & V. Berus would not handled to be moved to a different location, they surtainly wouldn’t breed any more - and removing them plus bringing them back would not help anything at all. I don’t like when people capture wild animals and keep them – not at all. I don’t think anything could make that right. Unless they people who “stole” it from the nature is veiling to breed them in the correct fashion for a GOOD purpose - and they should have a very decent point of doing that, possibly releasing juveniles back to nature again. To that i can point out that breeding fx Vipera Berus in captivity has shown to be harder than expected, for Danish researchers that is. My local spot often get harvested by the zoo in Copenhagen :( My opinion about people who “pluck” wild species for their terrariums is simple – they should be imprisoned! If you want a reptile buy a captive bred one, leave the wild ones to be. I also think that species in captivity have a tendency to be destroyed over a decade of time, even though people don’t want to do it - I can’t not point out how much I hate morphs or hybrids . People who breed colormorphs are endangering the normal varieties known to the different locations around the world. Many people who don’t know much about reptiles can’t see the difference, so in the end everything will be mixed - if they use them for breeding. Snakes are disappearing from the wild, in a near future the morph-industry will slowly alter the remaining captive held species so they no longer resembles the animals we once had in the wild. It’s so hard to find good locality stated species. So stick to the bred animals instead of destroying nature – leave the snakes!!

Handling:
I handle wild snakes, lizards and amphibians – if I need to, otherwise never! I would never pick up a snake or any other animal, if it was’nt necessary. For example: snakes stuck in beer cans, reptiles with ticks and parasites – I always remove ticks. Every time I have spend aprox. 24-48 hours in the field you might say I handle one reptile briefly, (2 minutes max – pr. procentage). But I must admit I got a weak spot for juveniles, sometimes I can keep my fingers of them even though there is no reason - the best picture for me is Vipera Berus juveniles – it makes my day complete! But i always tell every buddy not to touch them at all in the field. But I am generally very over-gentle with them if i need to handle them – i could not in a million years drag a snake from it’s hole, or pick it up and make a “fake” picture. I NEVER take pictures of placed snaked, a good photographer should try to show nature as it is and not manipulate with it! I always lay down in the dence vegetation, instead of just picking them up and place them somewhere – that is simply to easy and stressfull I believe. If you have to handle - do it in a timespand of max 5 min. - and only once a week.

I get my kicks from following the population – not from picking them up. If I want action I can go do some sports or something, the animals should not pay for me being bored. The best kick I can get is juveniles from past season. I am like everyone else, I love o handle I love to touch and gain knowledge, but i sincerely believe I get much longer without handling wild animals – but I am not afraid I just use my mind and let the reptiles be.

In general I think the common person is very confused about reptiles and have received a totally wrong impression of handling from TV - most plain folks are misleaded - for example animal planet. Let me give a story: I just watched a program with Austin Stevens – Hmmmm - He is simply the biggest paradox found on television. He throws himself over the animals as if he were at war with them many times it looks like he might injure them. WTF?? It can be done so quick and gentle with out making a scene.. In his recent program he described a "moloch horridus" as dwarf monitor lizard ????? Just the bottom of the bottom of stupid knowledge with no sence of reality - how can they send that kind of sh*t and call themselves an animal channel. I am so tired of Steve Irvin clones, who believe they must attack the animals for the viewers - while they throw around with the poor animal. Next time I open for the TV - I almost expect to see someone who don’t know anything about snakes -> the winner of X-factor for example - I also expect to see him being bitten at least 3 times by a venomous snake, and call a green iguana a green water dragon while he screams crazy and slap it around by the tail. It would fit the spirit of the Animal Planet .. I'm so sorry for people who think they learn anything from the channel - especially for reptiles. I personally banned that sh*t long time ago.. I think thoose programs manipulate normal people, hwo don't know anything about reptiles, and mess them very much up!

Trespassing:
I must admit i trespass alot, but i never had any problems and people where very nice when they found out was i was doing on ther lawn – very nice indeed, some of them even became ”herp-friends”. My favorite spot is actually between public sommerhouses.. So its something i can’t get arround if i wan’t to herp. Fortunatly i am lucky with the nature reserve, i can visit when i want because i know the leader of the erea, (lots of sand and forrest lizzards + a million Rana Esculenta. I think its important to be educational and informent at these situations, if you walk with a snakepole and a backpack people are generally very nice even if you trespass 

I see my self as a conservationist - i remove garbage, fishing line asf. I actually always bring a garbagebag with me when im out there for trash laying around, and I try to educate people with dogs running on the snakesnesting places.. I do it for the calm feeling herping has - like fishing, i just love nature and have no reason to disturb the animals.. As a herpetologist/amateur herpetologist you must do was right for the animals - and that involve minimum handling etc.


These opinions are stricktly mine and is just a view of personal believe, nothing else ;)
Greetings Mikkel Frederiksen - Denmark
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Re: What is proper field herping conduct?

Postby Mikkel Frederiksen » Tue Jan 26, 2010 6:23 pm

Michael Glass wrote:Your critics on morph breeding are way too harsh and blanket. I don't want to redirect the thread in a morph discussion, so if you are interested, we can discuss that in another thread. However, I would like to point out that I do not agree with your statements on resembling animals in the wild and that colormorphs do endanger "normal" animals. These statements neglect the situation of every captive bred animal as well as overrate the presence of recessive color/pattern-mutations.

Yes, it could be great to discuss the genetics in a seperate thread. I must admit im a field person - not a breeder, i only know what i have heard and red of morphs, so of course my opinion can be changed and i might be wrong :) However i will never be able to accept morphs or hybrids as animals i would own myself, not even if the "mutation" is present in the animal by nature at first.. I even feel that way about albinos, but that is just me. Maby im just picky.. But i just like snakes to resemble nature. I cincerelly just cant belive it's good to breed for color - look what human selection did to other species of animals, dogs cats etc... I know you can't compare the genetics between those types of animals. But it will always be my opinon - i just like tings as nature intended :)
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Re: What is proper field herping conduct?

Postby Jeroen Speybroeck » Wed Jan 27, 2010 11:47 am

[quote="Mikkel Frederiksen]i just like tings as nature intended :)[/quote]
Sure, but e.g. albino's are also part of that.
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Re: What is proper field herping conduct?

Postby Mikkel Frederiksen » Wed Jan 27, 2010 1:01 pm

Jeroen Speybroeck wrote:Sure, but e.g. albino's are also part of that.

Yes, of curse i know that albinos are a "normal" thing in nature :lol: But that will not change my opinion of them being darn ugly ;) And i think it's very rare an albino ever would survieve in the wild, so in a that way albinos only live to adulthood in captivity -> and are therfore not normal in the wild at any means -> (as well as animals with other "birth defects", albinos would also die quite fast).

Im just old fashion and a hypocrite ;) But it is like I always said - For example; A piedball python is only nice in patchy spots, the rest of the snake you can keep :lol:

But let's get back to subject or make an other thread :)
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Re: What is proper field herping conduct?

Postby Mikkel Frederiksen » Wed Jan 27, 2010 1:56 pm

You are welcome to start a new subject on my behalf if you want, I would like to learn a lot more that's for sure - so that could be great ;) I don't know anything about dominance in genes, latent genes that can be bred trugh and so on. I never had any interest in color-breeding - and i never will, but anyway i would like to learn more so i don't make an ass out of myself during discussions :) Alot of people in denmark are breeding for color, specially ball pythons, but hybrids are also very popular.. So yes, let me learn even though i don't like selective breeding!

(But it bugs my mind that you say that it dos not effect the captive animals - maby im just ignorant, but for example - in theese days in denmark it's so hard to find a good natural P. regius - allmost all of them are jaguars, piedball's and so on. No one seems to be interested in the "normal" variety, i think it's a shame - everybuddy breeds for color these days. I simply can't se the nice part of that.... But i never claimed to be an expert - im only interested in phenologial fieldherpetology and this is just my opinion)

But i will follow your links and read them ;)
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Re: What is proper field herping conduct?

Postby Michal Szkudlarek » Wed Jul 12, 2017 12:02 pm

Would you enter fenced ground if gate to that place was opened?
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