Green toad classification

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Green toad classification

Postby Paul Lambourne » Fri Dec 09, 2011 1:16 pm

Can anybody tell me the latest classification regarding the species of green toad in Europe, are the island endemic species balearicus and siculus full species or sub species...

I find it hard to keep up these days... maybe I'm getting old.. I mean what was wrong with betamax and mini disc...

cheers Paul
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Re: Green toad classification

Postby Jeroen Speybroeck » Fri Dec 09, 2011 3:20 pm

In comparison with Speybroeck et al. (2010), the SEH Taxonomic Commitee has adopted accepting Bufo boulengeri, with siculus as a subspecies. Variabilis and balearicus are best treated as subspecies of viridis (at least for now).
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Re: Green toad classification

Postby Jeroen Speybroeck » Fri Dec 09, 2011 3:21 pm

Note that balearicus is more than an island endemic =>
http://www.biomedcentral.com/content/pd ... 8-8-56.pdf
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Re: Green toad classification

Postby Paul Lambourne » Fri Dec 09, 2011 6:13 pm

Jeroen,

Thanks for the info, very much appreciated as ever.

Regards

Paul
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Re: Green toad classification

Postby Gabriel Martínez » Mon Dec 12, 2011 4:19 pm

Hi guys! I attach 3 Bufo sp. of the viridis complex. Following Golberg et al., 2011 they are Bufo (=Pseudepidalea) viridis. The central and north toads are clearly in the north clade (Israel, Turkey, Germany). But the Negev specimen is very rare. It was found close Egypt border and maybe is of the southern clade of this study (¿?¿ probably not because they use many samples in the study but...). Cheers!

bufo sp golen heights gabri mtnez.jpg
south Golen Heights (North Israel?)
bufo sp golen heights gabri mtnez.jpg (261.55 KiB) Viewed 4881 times


bufo sp hadera gabri mtnez.jpg
Hadera (Central Israel)
bufo sp hadera gabri mtnez.jpg (267.34 KiB) Viewed 4884 times


bufo sp negev gabri mtnez.jpg
Negev (southwest Israel)
bufo sp negev gabri mtnez.jpg (210.5 KiB) Viewed 4881 times


BTW: Paul in some months you can see more of these toads in the holy land ;)
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Re: Green toad classification

Postby Jeroen Speybroeck » Mon Dec 12, 2011 4:41 pm

Gabriel Martínez wrote:But the Negev specimen is very rare.


Looks indeed weird (and very nice), Gabri. However, I'll rather become a religious, non-smoking, alcohol-free vegetarian than to rely in colouration to identify species in this complex.

The trees of Goldberg et al. confirm separation of boulengeri vs. the rest, no?
http://journals.usamvcj.ro/zootehnie/ar ... /6667/6019

g's,

J.
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Re: Green toad classification

Postby Jeroen Speybroeck » Mon Dec 12, 2011 4:50 pm

Of course, also, the last one is a male and the others females (I think...).
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Re: Green toad classification

Postby Gabriel Martínez » Mon Dec 12, 2011 5:50 pm

Jeroen Speybroeck wrote:to rely in colouration to identify species in this complex


Of course not!!!!!! If we had found this toad in Tel Aviv I wouldn´t have any doubt about species. The problem is the coloration but ALSO the place where we found it: NEGEV, and FEW METERS to EGYPT. It´s a real risk to make juzgements in the aspect indeed, but I have not read the limit between south clade of viridis (yes, boulengeri) and viridis stricto sensu. So I just make a small doubt about this individual because:

- I haven´t experience in green toads (just a bit in Moroccan boulengeri)
- This toad was found very close Egypt and I don´t read where is the border line (maybe in Sinai Peninsula, I don´t know)

But I said:
Gabriel Martínez wrote:It was found close Egypt border and maybe is of the southern clade of this study (¿?¿ probably not because they use many samples in the study but...)


I mean, that I´m pretty sure that it´s a viridis, but the extreme desert localitation of the individual and the strange coloration make in me a small doubt! If you are sure, then now I´m sure 100% that we found 3 viridis in different habitats (mountain, mediterranean dunes and desert dunes)

Jeroen Speybroeck wrote:Of course, also, the last one is a male and the others females (I think...).


No idea. In Moroccan boulengeri usually males are green and females cream-brown, but Moroccan females are usually really nice marked, but in this case (viridis of Israel), males are nice and marked and "female" has a ugly design. But I have no knowledge about israel colorations and you know well the viridis coloration so probably you are right ;)
Attachments
3464025820_37377d32b6_z.jpg
Bufo boulengeri, amplexus. Tiznit (Morocco). Gabri Mtnez
3464025820_37377d32b6_z.jpg (90.96 KiB) Viewed 4855 times
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Re: Green toad classification

Postby Paul Lambourne » Mon Dec 12, 2011 7:49 pm

Gabriel,

Nice photos, making the wait till the Israel trip even harder.... I will try and find some of the stunning toads myself.. if I can persude a certain loco Bavarian that there is something as beautiful as Daboia out there :D

Kind regards

Paul
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Re: Green toad classification

Postby Gabriel Martínez » Mon Dec 12, 2011 8:29 pm

hehehe I agree. But I´m exactly like this crazy bavarian, I have maybe 100photos of each Daboia palaestinae and 3 of each Bufo/Pseudepidalea :lol: If your partner would be a normal herper I´m pretty sure that you would use at least a couple of hours in Discoglossus nigriventris habitat, but with us the time would be for viper habitats. Snake mad people, you know :twisted:
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