Vipera latastei: bite symptoms

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Vipera latastei: bite symptoms

Postby Johann.Mols » Thu Jul 07, 2011 10:41 pm

Dears
I just wanted to share this with you.
In spring this year, my father was bitten by a vipera lastati in estremadura, Spain (lucky him to find one, some of you would have said: me too)
Well it did not go so well...

The Vipera latastei: such a good looking snake: a true beauty.... well for a male :D
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Re: Vipera latasti: bite symtoms

Postby Johann.Mols » Thu Jul 07, 2011 10:43 pm

1h later....
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1h post bite
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Re: Vipera latasti: bite symptoms

Postby Johann.Mols » Thu Jul 07, 2011 10:46 pm

2 days later....
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2 days
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Re: Vipera latasti: bite symtoms

Postby Johann.Mols » Thu Jul 07, 2011 10:48 pm

3 days...
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3 days
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Re: Vipera latasti: bite symtoms

Postby Johann.Mols » Thu Jul 07, 2011 10:49 pm

4 days later...
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4 days later
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Re: Vipera latasti: bite symptoms

Postby Johann.Mols » Thu Jul 07, 2011 10:54 pm

After 6 days he was out of the hospital but today : 3 to 4 months later he still has a swolling and superficial hyper-sensitive hand (burning feeling).
I was surprised to see such symptoms from a bite of vipera latastei which is supposed to be not so dangerous.
Careful guys....
Johann


Ok, last pic from the viper
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Re: Vipera latasti: bite symptoms

Postby Gabriel Martínez » Thu Jul 07, 2011 11:27 pm

Wow! Impressive pictures...

One friend of Madrid was bitten by V. seoanei. He was bad one day (burning feeling and not-danger syntoms) but didn´t go to hospital. And some days after he was good. One year later he was bitten again by V. seoanei. He thought "no problem, it´s not dangerous snake". But after some minutes he began to feel very bad. He told me the feeling was vomit and like a hammer hitting the bitten area and he went to hospital. After some days he was good. After some years he was again bitten by a V. seoanei, and he was worse than the 2 last times. He run to hospital and all was good. And after some years he went to Teruel (good place for latastei-Spain) and one friend of him told "a snake, a snake". He run quickly and said: "where??", the friend told: it runs throught there!. "There" was full of bushes. He began to move the bushes with the hands (no gloves :? ) and suddenly an adult Vipera latastei bit his hand. After -some seconds- he lost the conscience. The friends caught him and put in a car to go for the hospital. In the way to hospital he woke up, saw the bite and again lost the conscience. Some days before he was good again but if he had been alone in Teruel...

I was reading the latastei venom is stronger than seoanei seoanei and maybe this is the cause. Or he has got being sensible to viper bites... I don´t know, but the real thing is that my friend Juan, or your father have got hard syntoms by Vipera latastei venom so our non-dangerous snake is more dangerous than we can think. I´m the first who expend many time in the viper habitat alone looking for vipers, and catching them without gloves. It´s a dangerous "game" that can have a fatal end. So thanks for sharing this photos to help a "stupid" guys like me to be more carefull handling our "non-dangerous" vipers... And many articles say aspis venom is stronger than latastei venom, so "aspis" guys, be carefull ;)
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Re: Vipera latastei: bite symptoms

Postby Mario Schweiger » Fri Jul 08, 2011 9:39 am

I want to remember you on a fatal bite of Vipera latastei.
Mr. Petr Vozenilek (from Czech republic) died on February 24th, 2003 after a bite of a full grown Vipera latastei female from his breeding stock.
Again: None of our European vipers is really harmless, not even the meadow viper (Vipera ursinii and relatives). Before a few years there was a deadly accident in Hungary.

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Please visit also my personal Herp-site vipersgarden.at
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Re: Vipera latastei: bite symptoms

Postby Jeroen Speybroeck » Fri Jul 08, 2011 11:21 am

Surely, getting one bite after another (cf. Gabri's story) is going to end badly someday. However, I have some doubt if you can generalise from exceptional disaster stories (e.g. dying from ursinii). I mean - people also die from wasp stings sometimes. Maybe I am playing devil's advocate here, but it's just a thought - don't even know if I agree with it myself :roll:
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Re: Vipera latastei: bite symptoms

Postby Gabriel Martínez » Fri Jul 08, 2011 11:47 am

Mario Schweiger wrote:Mr. Petr Vozenilek (from Czech republic) died on February 24th, 2003 after a bite of a full grown Vipera latastei

:shock: (a old man?¿)

Jeroen Speybroeck wrote:etting one bite after another (cf. Gabri's story) is going to end badly someday

I thought the same. But this guy is now more carefully and use gloves always, having the same caution with our Vipera than when he visit another countries to Peltopelor, Echis... The problem is that we think our vipers are not dangerous. I think if I was bitten by latastei I would survive, but sometimes our body don´t response good. I´m very nervous so maybe I would be like a hamster and the venom would actue very quickly and I will lose the conscience in some minutes, I don´t know and I hope to not have troubles never. But this kind of post with people bad by snake venom are "good" for this: be caution!! (This post, the post of Mario about the Crotalus in a zoo(Crotalus is another history of course but...)...). But usually I thing genus Vipera bites don´t finish in death so the problem herping is not so hard like if you are living in south Africa, India or something like that. For example, in your trip to Gredos, one of your friends was bitten by latastei and he was "as good as possible"

The incredible of Vipera latastei (and I guess of many vipers) is that if you see a snake like Malpolon, Hemorrhois, etc...in the field this snake run quickly to the closer burrow and run to the most deep place to try to scape of the predator. But vipers sometimes actue different. Last spring I was walking close to walls and suddenly I saw a big latastei female sunbathing in the down place of the wall, totally stretched over a dry thistles. In less than 1 second it run to a closer burrow in the wall. I jump to the another side of the wall, because this side (shadow side) was recently cleared and without the spine bushes of last year and I could see the viper with the body turned. The tail was in the most deep place (close to me) and the head was close to the burrow entrance, probably waiting if the predator try to dig in the burrow where the viper had entered, and then bite my hand /the head of a fox / or any possible attack. I had talken many times about this behavior with people so it didn´t surprise me very much but I could see perfect how the viper entered and turned the body to ambush position to attack the possible predator. These vipers really get to drive me crazy... and it´s necessary to have the head very cold when you see a viper and don´t make instintive movements to catch it if the situation have just a bit of possible danger :|
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