Andrias japonicus, Japan

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Andrias japonicus, Japan

Postby Yannick Francioli » Mon Aug 25, 2014 1:04 pm

This summer I went to Japan, the trip was organized by my university in order to visit Osaka... But I managed to escape the city for two days to go hunt for the mighty giant salamander ! :D
I contacted a japanese scientist, Sumio Okada, who works on Andrias japonicus. He's a really nice guy ! Very happy when people want to come and see those salamanders, we managed to meet and go on the field together.

Some in situ pictures:
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Caught in the net:
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Measuring the beasts:
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And put it back in the water:
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We found "only" three Andrias, but the conditions weren't very good, normally it's easy to find more than 10 in 2-3 hours.
Sumio marks all Andrias he finds with an elecrtronic chip in the neck, that way he can easily recognize each individuals and follow their growth (he already marked more than 1600 Andrias in the area). All salamanders we caught were already marked.

And here are a few other herps I could find:

Rana nigromaculata:
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Hyla japonica:
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Elaphe quadrivirgata:
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And I forgot the name of this nice little newt, maybe someone can identify it ?
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Re: Andrias japonicus, Japan

Postby Jeroen Speybroeck » Mon Aug 25, 2014 1:42 pm

Cynops pyrrhogaster or something related (I should check).

It's great to learn that Andrias is doing well in some places, I had no idea. That species is definitely on my bucket list, so I might contact that guy too some day. Thanks for the story, much appreciated!
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Re: Andrias japonicus, Japan

Postby Ruggero Morimando » Mon Aug 25, 2014 3:12 pm

A question about Elaphe quadrivirgata (classification).
Is it still an Elaphe? :?:

Everything is changed in this genus, and I thought this snake was now considered as "Phyllophis" quadrivirgatus (together with the asiatic P.carinatus: both species have actually some similar traits, i.e. pupil form, very keeled dorsal scales, usw).

But if it's still an Elaphe, like our E.quatuorlineata... this is a real nonsense! :shock:
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Re: Andrias japonicus, Japan

Postby Bobby Bok » Mon Aug 25, 2014 3:22 pm

Very nice experience probably, thanks for posting!

Jeroen Speybroeck wrote:That species is definitely on my bucket list,


Same here :)

Another tripreport from Japan (incl. Andrias);
http://www.sebastian-voitel.de/41322.html
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Re: Andrias japonicus, Japan

Postby Jürgen Gebhart » Mon Aug 25, 2014 3:28 pm

Very impressive!!!

I ask myself if there is any snakespecies in that area who can eat a Monster like this?
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Re: Andrias japonicus, Japan

Postby Jeroen Speybroeck » Mon Aug 25, 2014 4:03 pm

Ruggero Morimando wrote:A question about Elaphe quadrivirgata (classification).
Is it still an Elaphe? :?:

Everything is changed in this genus, and I thought this snake was now considered as "Phyllophis" quadrivirgatus (together with the asiatic P.carinatus: both species have actually some similar traits, i.e. pupil form, very keeled dorsal scales, usw).

But if it's still an Elaphe, like our E.quatuorlineata... this is a real nonsense! :shock:


Which paper revalidates Phyllophis?

The one linked below suggests that this should involve renaming at least also schrenckii, while a split from quatuorlineata and other species seems poorly resolved.
http://scholar.google.be/scholar_url?hl=nl&q=http://www.researchgate.net/publication/47790057_The_phylogeny_of_advanced_snakes_(Colubroidea)_with_discovery_of_a_new_subfamily_and_comparison_of_support_methods_for_likelihood_trees/file/60b7d52a4709539ad7.pdf&sa=X&scisig=AAGBfm2PJN55CMQxZLT7gg3pQVljaqBKqQ&oi=scholarr&ei=E0_7U9LBC-fC7AbAtYDwAw&ved=0CB8QgAMoADAA
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Re: Andrias japonicus, Japan

Postby Jeroen Speybroeck » Mon Aug 25, 2014 4:13 pm

Bobby Bok wrote:Another tripreport from Japan (incl. Andrias);
http://www.sebastian-voitel.de/41322.html


Oh yes, I had forgotten about that one...

Narrowing it down for people with slow connection =>
http://www.salamandernetz.de/media//DIR ... fffff2.pdf

When are we leaving, Bob?
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Re: Andrias japonicus, Japan

Postby Niklas Ban » Mon Aug 25, 2014 4:44 pm

Thanks for sharing this speciem you can't see in so much herp reports! :)
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Re: Andrias japonicus, Japan

Postby Ruggero Morimando » Mon Aug 25, 2014 7:58 pm

Jeroen Speybroeck wrote:
Ruggero Morimando wrote:A question about Elaphe quadrivirgata (classification).
Is it still an Elaphe? :?:

Everything is changed in this genus, and I thought this snake was now considered as "Phyllophis" quadrivirgatus (together with the asiatic P.carinatus: both species have actually some similar traits, i.e. pupil form, very keeled dorsal scales, usw).

But if it's still an Elaphe, like our E.quatuorlineata... this is a real nonsense! :shock:


Which paper revalidates Phyllophis?

The one linked below suggests that this should involve renaming at least also schrenckii, while a split from quatuorlineata and other species seems poorly resolved.
http://scholar.google.be/scholar_url?hl=nl&q=http://www.researchgate.net/publication/47790057_The_phylogeny_of_advanced_snakes_(Colubroidea)_with_discovery_of_a_new_subfamily_and_comparison_of_support_methods_for_likelihood_trees/file/60b7d52a4709539ad7.pdf&sa=X&scisig=AAGBfm2PJN55CMQxZLT7gg3pQVljaqBKqQ&oi=scholarr&ei=E0_7U9LBC-fC7AbAtYDwAw&ved=0CB8QgAMoADAA



Thanks Jeroen! :)

I don't know which paper: I've read about this, but I don't remember where...
I've kept for many years in terrarium Elaphe carinata, and I know very well from personal experience it's a totally different snake from our E.quatuorlineata.
Same for the japanise quadrivirgata (except for it's colour and markings): it's a snake with somehow ellyptical pupil, very heavily keeled dorsal scales, lives in wet environment near water sources, and, last but not least, totally different and far from each other distribution (Japan vs Mediterranean region/near East)... Nothing to do with our european four-lined snake.
For this reasons I was almost sure it was included in another genus: but it's not so, as I can state! :cry:

That's all! :lol:
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Re: Andrias japonicus, Japan

Postby Bobby Bok » Tue Aug 26, 2014 8:41 pm

Jeroen Speybroeck wrote:When are we leaving, Bob?


Well, I don't have anything to do at the weekend of the 20th...
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