Israel 2013

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Re: Israel 2013

Postby Jeroen Speybroeck » Thu Oct 17, 2013 8:54 pm

Jürgen Gebhart wrote:My best road cruising night in Israel was 3 different Species (5 Snakes) in 90 min.
I know I repeat but the best example fo me is Oman.
Herpetofauna.at Team no Snakes at night.
Spain – German Team no Snakes at night.
Carranza Team 14 Snakes in one night.
I remember a night cruising in Southwest Texas
A 6 hour Drive along the famous River road , a perfect night, no wind, no full moon and
No Snakes!
It`s always the same game, right time - right place and everything is possible!


Of course, timing is important, but I still think there's more to it... In SoCal and AZ, I never had a snakeless night.
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Re: Israel 2013

Postby Gabriel Martínez » Thu Oct 17, 2013 11:34 pm

Hi all!

Jurgen, you can not compare EEUU with Western Paleartic. Jeroen is right! I don´t know why but in Morocco, in the BEST night, we have found 4 snakes in road. In Israel, maybe best night you find 15 snakes in one night. In Oman, best night 14 snakes (after some night snakeless). But in Arizona, I have heard stories about 80 snakes in 1 night!!! This is impossible in the the mediaterranean or Arabia.

Some people say that in Europe, our cultures (Islam, Judish, Christians) make us to hate snakes so we have been killed snakes probably during thousands of years, whereas in EEUU, local people respected snakes (animals were divine creatures) so they didn´t kill them, and snakes have been died only 500 years ago and the densities continue higher than in the "old world". True? False?

Also in EEUU desert, there is a monsoon during summer and snakes are highly actived even in summer. In Spain, Croatia, Morocco, Oman (except tropical areas) or Israel, animals in desert/mediterranean areas less of 1200masl are usually hidden and poorly actived during summer and there is only 2 moments of high activity, spring and autumn. Maybe a higher activity through the year is related with more reproduction moments and more hatchlings and higher densities. True? false?

We was talking in the forum before about snake activity. In Morocco, in very good places for Cerastes, you try in a good night and you don´t find nothing. In Oman also you can check the dunes in a good night and you don´t find nothing (lot of geckos, mammals and invertebrates and 0 snakes). The only exception that I know is the Israel Western Dunes where from april-october always is possible to find Cerastes actived (usually more than 15). There is no important the moon, the wind, etc... and there is no important studies of this in the Western Paleartic but some nights are good and other are bad. Even some years are good and other are bad. In Morocco, some aissaoui say that years with lot of rains are bad for snakes. I don´t know if this is true, but really some trips you find many herps in roads, and other year in same days you don´t find nothing! And is seems a similar weather and conditions, something change? what?

In general, we have to admit that density of snakes in EEUU is higher than Israel, Oman or Morocco. And in Israel, densities are higher than Morocco. Stanner & Mendelssohn made some interesting works about VAranus densities and they told that Varanus populations are higher in Israel than in Sahara desert (a big difference, maybe the double of individuals for each kilometer) and probably this happen also in snakes. Maybe because weather, predators, food, human impact and other factors...

This is very interesting, don´t know why nobody have studied about this in WP...
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Re: Israel 2013

Postby Mario Schweiger » Tue Nov 26, 2013 9:00 am

Jürgen Gebhart wrote:
Guillaume Gomard wrote:@Jürgen: From the sole herping point of view, do you have a preference between Oman and Israel? What is your next destination in this part of the world?Guillaume


Israel vs. Oman

Israel is a very small Country (22.145 km²) against Oman (309.500 km²).
The longest distance between north and south is around 500 km, in a very exciting area the Habitat changes every hour.
Reptiles
Israel around 90 Oman around 80 (After Carranza and his Colleges are ready with work on
The Geckos than maybe around 100 or more)

Amphibian
Israel 9 Oman 2

So Israel is the best herping place in the world!

I like Oman, but I prefer short Trips (7 – 9 Days)
If you visit the Oman you have to go from the north (Mascat Airport) to the south (Salalah)
(if you want to see as much as possible, Reptiles and different Habitats, than it is necessary)
Around 1000 km, you have to drive hours and hours in no-man’s-land.
Very boring!
To get the most success in a short time you have to work hard and you are always in a hurry.

I really not sure what I`m doing in Spring.
But it will be of course a country in the near Middle East, maybe Jordan, maybe Oman.


no new gecko from Israel now, but from Egypt (Sinai), Saudi Arabia and Yemen ;) - Hemidactylus granosus HEYDEN, 1827 resurrected and H. ulii new.
=>
Smíd, J., J. Moravec, L. Kratochvíl, V. Gvozdik, A.K. Nasher, S.M. Busais, T. Wilms, M.Y. Shobrak & S. Carranza (2013): Two newly recognized species of Hemidactylus (Squamata, Gekkonidae) from the Arabian Peninsula and Sinai, Egypt. -- ZooKeys 355: 79–107.
PDF-6232 in DB

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Please visit also my personal Herp-site vipersgarden.at
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Re: Israel 2013

Postby Thomas Bader » Sat Nov 30, 2013 12:47 pm

I know I repeat but the best example fo me is Oman.
Herpetofauna.at Team no Snakes at night.


Well, this is not really correct.
I one night we found Spalerosophis and Echis
in another night we found 6 or 7 Lytorhynchus
once 1 Lytorhynchus
but always on more or less sandy places.
The night search in stone or rock deserts was always in vain.

In Morocco we found one Cerastes cerastes
and one C. vipera in another night.
one Natrix maura
but many nights without success

Jordan was a disaster
in all the time only one Lyto in the night (cold and windy) no tracks at all...
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Re: Israel 2013

Postby Jürgen Gebhart » Sat Nov 30, 2013 4:16 pm

Thomas, what I meant in my horrible english was, not snakes at night on the road
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Re: Israel 2013

Postby Thomas Bader » Sat Nov 30, 2013 4:52 pm

Oh sorry Jürgen, you are absolutely right.
In fact we never found any snake on the road during the night!
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