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Peter Oefinger wrote:A bigger point is that most of us do not count Eastern Europe (Ukraine / Russia). I don't feel good about that because it is too obvious why we excude these areas...

True, this is slightly more fundamental, although I'm not sure what it is that you call obvious. Politics? Vodka intolerance? Lack of feta and retsina? For me personally, it's a bit because the (limited number of) additional species and the landscape diversity seem less appealing than that in the rest of Europe. There's a Darevskia waiting for you in Crimea, in any case, Peter.
(BTW, I believe the Glandt guide actually offers more than Europe.)

Jeroen Speybroeck wrote:Politics? Vodka intolerance? Lack of feta and retsina?

Actually, the availability of Restsina should be the major criterium.

It depends if you consider the northern slopes of Caucasus as part of Europe. If you do so, there will be at least +/-10 additional species and an appealing landscape diversity. So: who will do the first Tchetchenia herping trip?

Peter Oefinger wrote:It depends if you consider the northern slopes of Caucasus as part of Europe.

They are.

Peter Oefinger wrote:there will be at least +/-10 additional species and an appealing landscape diversity. So: who will do the first Tchetchenia herping trip?

That's only a 5% increase => statistically insignificant

Guys

My tick list is small enough.. Can you stop adding species!!

Yours ( looking up the feasibility of a Ukraine trip)

Paul

Peter Oefinger wrote:

Jeroen Speybroeck wrote:What a nerdy topic, right?

Of course - like99% of the stuff in this forum.

I'm actually wondering when someone will bring up the world cup

Jeroen, please I beg you..no football.. This forum is my only sanctuary away from endless talk of a pointless sport where you don't even get to hit anybody...

On a happier note.. If the lines/rules of euro herping seem a little blurred.. I don't suppose anybody has a western palearctic list

Cheers
Paul

You mean a list of Europe + North Africa? I guess Mario has - he has seen this all...

Peter Oefinger wrote:You mean a list of Europe + North Africa? I guess Mario has - he has seen this all...

The WP is larger than that.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_Palaearctic
Yet, Mario has this covered largely, I assume.

However, you cannot stick birding concepts to herpetofauna. Note that the precise delimitation of the WP (and similar biogeographical areas) differs depending on the considered fauna/flora taxon and is debated/debatable. The term WP is particularly popular with birders. Herpetofauna has much more restricted dispersal capacities. This causes limitations to move between areas and is reflected in the evolutionary history of the species. A meaningful WP (or whatever you'd call it) delimitation for herps would thus relate to a clearly smaller area than that for birds, imho. In contrast, the Sindaco book on WP reptiles uses a larger area (cf. http://www.nhbs.com/images/jackets_resi ... 4903_3.jpg).