Israel - In search of the Holy Grail!!

Israel, Jordan, Syria, Lebanon, Iraq, Iran, Turkey, Cyprus

Re: Israel - In search of the Holy Grail!!

Postby Wouter Beukema » Wed May 04, 2011 4:14 pm

Really fantastic guys! Depending on where the Hyla's were found, its possible you also photographed the recently described Hyla felixarabia which (in that area) occurs in Jordan, southern Syria and (north)eastern Israel.

Love the Telescopus and Chalcides guentheri!
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Re: Israel - In search of the Holy Grail!!

Postby Gabriel Martínez » Wed May 04, 2011 4:42 pm

Hi Wouter! Thank you very much. I´ve just read now the article and its very interesting. And following Gvozdík et al., 2010 the individuals we found close Golan Heights would be Hyla felixarabica, and the Tel Aviv frogs, Hyla savignyi. Great Wouter! ;)
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Re: Israel - In search of the Holy Grail!!

Postby Jürgen Gebhart » Wed May 04, 2011 5:16 pm

Guillaume Gomard wrote:
The one we found in the northeast is an Echis coloratus terraescantae.
The four we found in the middle are integrates Echis coloratus ssp.


Thanks for your reply. I was just wondering if terraescantae was still a valid subspecies. I understood from the 2009 paper by E.Pook that it was no more the case.



I don`t know, maybe I`m not updated!
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Re: Israel - In search of the Holy Grail!!

Postby Jürgen Gebhart » Wed May 04, 2011 5:17 pm

Gabriel Martínez wrote:Hi everybody!!

Here is the large version of the Israel trip:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/gabrimtnez ... 9646/show/


Great Collection, my Friend!!!
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Re: Israel - In search of the Holy Grail!!

Postby Francesco Tri » Wed May 04, 2011 6:28 pm

I'm horrified :D
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Re: Israel - In search of the Holy Grail!!

Postby Guillaume Gomard » Wed May 04, 2011 7:22 pm

I had a very good time looking through the whole gallery, thanks again!
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Re: Israel - In search of the Holy Grail!!

Postby Gabriel Martínez » Thu May 05, 2011 2:59 pm

Guillaume Gomard wrote:
The one we found in the northeast is an Echis coloratus terraescantae.
The four we found in the middle are integrates Echis coloratus ssp.


Thanks for your reply. I was just wondering if terraescantae was still a valid subspecies. I understood from the 2009 paper by E.Pook that it was no more the case.


I was talking with Mazuch. He told me there are different thoughts in Echis coloratus subspecies. Some authors don´t recognize any subspecies in coloratus (Joger, Pook...) and just recognize terraesanctae like geographic form. Another author (Babocsay) is convinced about the subspecific rank of terraesanctae.

Following Babocsay in our trip we have seen 1 specimen of Eilat (Echis coloratus coloratus), 1 of Beit Shean area (Echis coloratus terraesanctae. 2 more in my last trip in may 2010) and 5 (1DOR) in trasition area. The viper found in Eilat has a "yellow-brown" coloration no typical in Eilat (photo), where the coloration more common is redish-pink. But in this specimen the coloration and design is for me very similar to the Echis of transition area (photo) and even to the second Echis we found in Beit Shean area in may 2010 (photo).

coloratus.jpg
coloratus.jpg (152.58 KiB) Viewed 4141 times

Transition 3.jpg
Transition 3.jpg (134.79 KiB) Viewed 4143 times

Terraesanctae 2.jpg
Terraesanctae 2.jpg (120.22 KiB) Viewed 4143 times



Babocsay or Pook...
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Re: Israel - In search of the Holy Grail!!

Postby Guillaume Gomard » Thu May 05, 2011 7:19 pm

Some authors don´t recognize any subspecies in coloratus (Joger, Pook...) and just recognize terraesanctae like geographic form. Another author (Babocsay) is convinced about the subspecific rank of terraesanctae.


That's also what I had in mind. Thanks for the precisions about the pattern similarity around the Eilat region, it seems quite risky indeed to base one's ID from the coloration, as could have been expected. Very nice pics, by the way ;)
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Re: Israel - In search of the Holy Grail!!

Postby Gabriel Martínez » Fri May 06, 2011 9:43 am

Guillaume Gomard wrote:it seems quite risky indeed to base one's ID from the coloration, as could have been expected.


Of course, and more in a variable genus like Echis...

Guillaume Gomard wrote:Very nice pics, by the way ;)


Thanks Guillaume! But with this models so amazing all the photos have to be nice! ;)
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Re: Israel - In search of the Holy Grail!!

Postby Jürgen Gebhart » Mon May 09, 2011 7:13 pm

A few more pics...

The Team Budi, I and Gabri (pic by Budi`s camera)
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the "green Area" of Israel, northeast - Gilboa mountains
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Try area - Negev Desert
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A canyon close to Mitzpe Ramon
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Mountains at Eilat
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Sand dunes at the Arava home of Cerastes gasperetti
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It looks like rain
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I was very happy to get a pic of a wild Ibex, he was colse to the road
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There is a projekt for relase Ibex in the Crater colse to Mitzpe Ramon, some signs around
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But that doesen`work, an Ibex close to the steps to the Visitor center
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After he get bored of picturing, he left, but not in the rocks, no, he went slowly with an other on to the middle of the city!!!

Beetle Love
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Totaly black grashopper
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Ein Gedi nature reserve
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Draggonfly
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Bird
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At the Entrence - Rock Hyrax
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in the Park also
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This holes are good for Geckos and Snakes, but we found
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a fox!!
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Budi and Gabri made a rescue team and helped him out
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Gabri and I take pics of a Platyceps collaris (pic by Budi)
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The holy Grail
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searching for the right position
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Gabri and Daboia palaestinae (Pic by Budi)
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At the end of the Trip - at the end of Power??? Budi never!!!!!!!!!!!!
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That`s it.
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