fieldherping.eu

Berislav Horvatic wrote:

Mario Schweiger wrote:I would say, a 4lineata with 90 - 100 cm (females) and a bit larger for males is mature
and able to breed for sure. May still have a fade youth pattern.
Mario

Thanks, Mario, that's a straight answer that solves the particular practical problem my friend has.
Much obliged, in his name as well.

Now we can theorize further, if anyone feels like it, of course.

That's not a straight answer as you ignore other features like biomass, which have bearing on reaching maturity. I think you can NOT set fixed size borders for maturity across an entire species range. Clear example is muenteri, but a clinal (or even discrete) variation surely exists on the mainland too.

BTW, regarding the remnants of the juvenile dorsal pattern, the "baby"
in the following pictures had a total body length of 154 cm.

Berislav Horvatic wrote:BTW, regarding the remnants of the juvenile dorsal pattern, the "baby"
in the following pictures had a total body length of 154 cm.

Very cool...

2 4lines, both males from Crna Gora, May 2011.





Yours Bero, is a female, due to the dull color. And in females the spots are longer visible, as far as I have observed, and I have seen dozens, if not hundred(s) in my life.

Mario

With the exception of the Aegaean islands, there seems to be no difference in size.
muenteri finishes the change from juvenile to adult pattern with 80 - 90 cm.
No difference in color between sexes.
Females grow much larger than males.
(All these from the "Handbuch").
But there is a difference in color between sexes and the largest 4lineata I ever saw was a male, close to 200 cm. Must have a picture from this metusalem somewhere.

Mario

Mertens (1961): Zur Synonymie, Taxionomie und Verbreitung der Vierstreifennatter, Elaphe quatuorlineata.- Bonn. zool. Beiträge 12(3/4): 324 - 331 (PDF-3867 in DB)
gives some examples on the change from juvenile to adult pattern. In summary, point 4:
4. Bei der Nominatrasse erfolgt die Umwandlung der gefleckten Jugendzeichnung in das gestreifte Alterskleid bei sehr verschieden großen Tieren. Sie kann bereits bei 50 bis 55 cm langen Nattern einsetzen, kann aber selbst bei über 100 cm langen noch nicht abgeschlossen sein.

Mario

Mario Schweiger wrote:Yours Bero, is a female, due to the dull color. And in females the spots are longer visible,
as far as I have observed, and I have seen dozens, if not hundred(s) in my life.

Bravissimo, Maestro! I've never doubted your expertise. Yes, my friend, it was a female.
Actually, both of them were (still are, if they are both alive):


And both of them could not be regarded as subadult, I would say, irrespective of the
coloration (of either).
Now you can delete this picture from the posting, in accordance with the strict rules
you imposed for this forum - if you dare... I'd bet some guys here would crucify you
for that...
Actually, I've chosen the picture where the tail is clearly visible, so maybe, just maybe,
the picture might evade your scissors...? Or should the people vote?

Why I ashould delete the picture of this nice looking girl

Mario

Mario Schweiger wrote:Why I should delete the picture of this nice looking girl

Because you said so yourself in viewtopic.php?f=41&t=829:
It is not allowed to post "throphy shots", like the following examples
Trophy with Dolichophis caspius, Bojana, Montenegro; May 2006
Trophy with Vipera ammodytes; Bojana, Montenegro; June 2007
This type of photos from now on will be removed!
Thank you all for your cooperation.
Mario (Admin)

Berislav Horvatic wrote:This type of photos from now on will be removed!

Please, Lord, not again ...