function of fire salamander colouration

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function of fire salamander colouration

Postby Michal Szkudlarek » Sat Sep 24, 2016 9:10 pm

is it aposematism, camouflage or both?
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Re: function of fire salamander colouration

Postby Berislav Horvatic » Sun Sep 25, 2016 12:40 am

Aposematism. How on earth could it be any conceivable kind of camouflage?!
Or maybe I've missed something...?
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Re: function of fire salamander colouration

Postby Michal Szkudlarek » Sun Sep 25, 2016 2:05 am

Berislav Horvatic wrote:Aposematism. How on earth could it be any conceivable kind of camouflage?!
Or maybe I've missed something...?

I read in polish sources that it is a camouflage. You know, fallen yellowish leafs.
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Re: function of fire salamander colouration

Postby Ruggero Morimando » Sun Sep 25, 2016 8:05 am

Interesting: in any case yellow blotches over a black body background help to disrupt body shape, and desrupting body shape could be considered a type of mimetism.
And we must also think about the habitat and the possible nocturnal activity, and the alternation of shadow and sunlight (or moonlight) over a wood leaf litter.
And how do nocturnal predators see a black yellow animal in the night or moon light? I don't know.
Anyway, black and yellow herps are rather common on earth... why?
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Re: function of fire salamander colouration

Postby Michal Szkudlarek » Sun Sep 25, 2016 12:24 pm

Anyway, black and yellow herps are rather common on earth... why?

because of high contrast between these colours?
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Re: function of fire salamander colouration

Postby Berislav Horvatic » Sun Sep 25, 2016 12:25 pm

Anyway, black and yellow herps are rather common on earth... why?

Not only herps. Wasps are the commonest example. And they certainly
don't use it as camouflage.

... and the alternation of shadow and sunlight (or moonlight) over a wood leaf litter.

Have you ever seen a salamander in a wood leaf litter, with spots of sunlight & c.?
I suppose you have, and from quite a distance... Believe your eyes.

Regarding yellow, that's the peak of the visible radiation of our dear Sun, and our
eyes are therefore most sensitive to this part of the solar spectrum. The eyes of
other creatures might/should be as well, for the same reason.
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Re: function of fire salamander colouration

Postby Ruggero Morimando » Mon Sep 26, 2016 1:09 pm

I too think that salamander colours are more aposematic than mimetic, but it's very difficult to say how other species can see this animal, maybe during night hours.
And even if salamanders colours may appear so "obvious", it was once not so immediate for me to see a second salamander that was quietly laying nearby the first one I spotted!
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Re: function of fire salamander colouration

Postby Ruggero Morimando » Mon Sep 26, 2016 3:13 pm

I've read on the web that most nocturnal animals don't see colours well, especially at night. In this case, big yellow blotches over a black body, a pattern that clearly disrupts a body shape, could be more beneficial, in terms of mimetism, than an uniform for instance brown or greenish colour, which lives perfectly recognizable the body shape of a salamander... I hope to have explained what I want to say... :D
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Re: function of fire salamander colouration

Postby Michal Szkudlarek » Tue Sep 27, 2016 1:49 am

pattern that clearly disrupts a body shape

it is logical but why dorsal line is present in crested newts then?
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Re: function of fire salamander colouration

Postby Ruggero Morimando » Tue Sep 27, 2016 10:56 am

I hope someone else will help me... :lol:
But not everything has something to do with mimetism in genetic evolution: sexual selection plays surely a role too, as well, I suppose, random events in Dna molecules and "simmetry" of living organisms... "Why a middle dorsal line?" could have the same meaning as the question "why tails grow always in the center of the dorsal spine?" I turn the question to other forumers with an elegant "I don't know!" :lol:
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