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Hierophis head patterns

PostPosted: Fri Dec 15, 2017 5:39 pm
by Mario Schweiger
For all of, believing you are able to distinguish hatchlings of H. viridiflavus and H. gemonensis, when occur sympatric (for example Krk island, Croatia)
head pattern.jpg

I will give the solution in a few days :lol:

Re: Hierophis head patterns

PostPosted: Fri Dec 15, 2017 8:11 pm
by Ruggero Morimando
If these pretty babies are not all viridiflavus (as it seems to me) I would say it's impossible for me to differentiate the two species seeing only the head and part of the neck of the babies... :lol:

Re: Hierophis head patterns

PostPosted: Fri Dec 15, 2017 8:33 pm
by Ruggero Morimando
Viridiflavus: f j k

Re: Hierophis head patterns

PostPosted: Sat Dec 16, 2017 9:02 am
by Christoph Stenger
I would guess, that the specimens with the darker head coloration are viridiflavus.

Re: Hierophis head patterns

PostPosted: Sat Dec 16, 2017 10:15 am
by Mario Schweiger
no, all are (viridiflavus) carbonarius from a communal nesting site in Abruzzo mountains.
There are more variation pictures in this paper:
MORPHOLOGICAL TRAITS OF HATCHLINGS OF THE WESTERN WHIP SNAKE Hierophis viridiflavus (LACÉPÈDE, 1789) FROM A CENTRAL ITALIAN POPULATION

959-4347-3-PB.pdf
(1.07 MiB) Downloaded 323 times

Re: Hierophis head patterns

PostPosted: Sat Dec 16, 2017 12:01 pm
by Ruggero Morimando
Mario Schweiger wrote:no, all are (viridiflavus) carbonarius from a communal nesting site in Abruzzo mountains.
There are more variation pictures in this paper:
MORPHOLOGICAL TRAITS OF HATCHLINGS OF THE WESTERN WHIP SNAKE Hierophis viridiflavus (LACÉPÈDE, 1789) FROM A CENTRAL ITALIAN POPULATION

959-4347-3-PB.pdf


So, I was right... :lol: But it was an unfair question,
because inside the question was implicit that at least some (or one) of those babies should have been a gemonensis... Very unfair, but I suspected the trick! :lol: ;)

Re: Hierophis head patterns

PostPosted: Sat Dec 16, 2017 4:21 pm
by Berislav Horvatic
So, I was right... :lol: But it was an unfair question, because inside the question was implicit that at least
some (or one) of those babies should have been a gemonensis... Very unfair, but I suspected the trick! :lol: ;)

Count the ventral scales, it might help, but also not 100% - there is a non-negligible statistical overlap...
So, DNA analysis, only. Or just wait till they reach the semiadult age at least...

Re: Hierophis head patterns

PostPosted: Sat Dec 16, 2017 5:04 pm
by Ruggero Morimando
On the contrary, Bero, i think it's possible to distinguish a baby viridiflavus from a baby gemonensis only by sight.
And, in fact, I didn't see a single gemonensis in the collage picture posted by Mario.
Even if I thought the babies were from Krk and at least one gemonensis had to be present in the picture.
But I coudn't find any...
So I was forced to choose three babies that for me were "more viridiflavus" than the others: babies j f k (John Fitzgerald Kennedy). But even then I couldn't find and indicate a single gemonensis... Obvious reason: none was there, as I wrote at once! :lol:

Re: Hierophis head patterns

PostPosted: Sat Dec 16, 2017 6:32 pm
by Christoph Stenger
Interesting. Did not expect that...

Re: Hierophis head patterns

PostPosted: Sat Dec 16, 2017 6:59 pm
by Berislav Horvatic
Ruggero Morimando wrote: But even then I couldn't find and indicate a single gemonensis... Obvious reason: none was there, as I wrote at once! :lol:

Lucky you. Or just more educated/competent/experienced than most of the others. Yes, I do believe it's possible.