blue Pelophylax near Toulouse

France, British isles

Re: blue Pelophylax near Toulouse

Postby Berislav Horvatic » Fri May 18, 2012 6:08 pm

Michal Szkudlarek wrote:It is just a illusion, like blue color of the sky or white color of arctic bear's fur.

An illusion? I don't quite understand what you mean by that. Rayleigh scattering is a physical mechanism
producing blue both in the atmosphere and in iridophores. The resulting blue light is REAL. Or you can
call light as such an illusion.

Michal Szkudlarek wrote: Blue color among R. arvalis males in mating season is characterized by structural origin.
It is said that this color is caused by lymphatic gathering.

Yes, that's the only thing Mr. Google can give you. It explains nothing, and personally I think it's wrong. I suspect
someone wrote it somewhere some day, and it's just being rewritten on and on.

Michal Szkudlarek wrote:Curio- after catching blue male, this color disappear, but returns after releasing him to water

It strongly depends on the sexual excitement of the male, and can disappear and reappear rather quickly.
It disappears if you "harass" the animal in any way, and reappears if you put it next to a female, with or
without water. That's what makes me think of it's being controlled neuraly, but I really don't know, nobody
seems to do. Sunshine and temperature seem to have no effect - after all, they are blue at night as well.
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Re: blue Pelophylax near Toulouse

Postby Michal Szkudlarek » Fri May 18, 2012 6:18 pm

Sunshine and temperature do affect. The warm and sunny weather is, the more intense blue color is.
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Re: blue Pelophylax near Toulouse

Postby Sandra Panienka » Fri May 18, 2012 6:20 pm

Berislav Horvatic wrote:Yes, that's the only thing Mr. Google can give you. It explains nothing, and personally I think it's wrong. I suspect
someone wrote it somewhere some day, and it's just being rewritten on and on.


Yes, I also had that impression. I have a book on R. arvalis that also took that into consideration. Maybe the misconception behind that fluid thing is that the intrinsic color of water molecules is actually blue, but it has more a turquoise component and you'd need quite a lot of molecules to get an intense color, so highly unlikely for R. arvalis, especially when you see that eardrums and lips can turn blue as well.
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Re: blue Pelophylax near Toulouse

Postby Berislav Horvatic » Fri May 18, 2012 6:36 pm

Believe it or not, a few days ago I thought of raising a thread "What makes R. arvalis blue" in the
"Theoretical Section"... But let's wait till someone comes around with something more substantial...

Can R. arvalis actually reduce yellow and red pigments to appear blue during breeding season?

Yes, both yellow and red - in an "early phase" they look like this:

Be6325_RED.jpg


BTW, the eardrums are bluer than almost anything else...
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Re: blue Pelophylax near Toulouse

Postby Sandra Panienka » Fri May 18, 2012 10:50 pm

Yes, that individual looks quite promising. In parts the frog seems to be almost purple, so some red component seems to be kept. That also reminds me that there is a paper dealing with ultraviolet signals in R. arvalis wolterstorffi which I can't access at the moment and I wonder if I was able to download it at work a while back.
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Re: blue Pelophylax near Toulouse

Postby Michal Szkudlarek » Fri May 18, 2012 11:41 pm

During mating season females even become reddish.
Image
Image
By the way, Sandra- taxon of R. arvalis wolterstorffi is not regarded as there is no significant differences between moor frogs from north and south.
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Re: blue Pelophylax near Toulouse

Postby Mario Schweiger » Sat May 19, 2012 1:23 pm

I found another paper, dealing with blue green frogs, although an American, Rana clamitans.

PDF-3929 in DB
BERNS, M.W. & K.S. NARAYAN (1970): An Histochemical and Ultrastructural Analysis of the Dermal Chromatophores of the Variant Ranid Blue Frog.-- J. MORPH., 132: 169-180.
Abstract:
Integument from blue and green areas of the variant blue frog were analyzed biochemically for pteridines and carotenoids. Solvent extraction and ab-sorption spectrophotometry indicated that ß-carotene was greatly reduced in the blue skin, and present in high quantities in the green skin of the blue frog. Thin layer and paper chromatography indicated that the pteridines were almost totally lacking in the blue skin, and present in normal quantities in the green skin of the blue frog.
Light and electron microscopy indicated that the xanthophore pigment cells were either greatly altered or absent from the blue integument and present in the green integument, The fine structure of the xanthphores of the green integument contained the normal ultrastructural components of xanthopores found in regular green integument. The blue integument contained an abnormal cell type that occupied the position in the dermal chromatophore unit normally held by the xanthophores. The possibility of these cells being abnormal xanthophores or some other cell type is discussed.

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Re: blue Pelophylax near Toulouse

Postby Jeroen Speybroeck » Tue Aug 14, 2012 2:41 pm

Sandra Panienka wrote:That also reminds me that there is a paper dealing with ultraviolet signals in R. arvalis wolterstorffi which I can't access at the moment and I wonder if I was able to download it at work a while back.


This one?
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1 ... 456.x/full
Sent it to Mario

+
http://vipersgarden.at/literatur/fh_dat ... value=3927
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Re: blue Pelophylax near Toulouse

Postby Mario Schweiger » Wed Aug 15, 2012 11:45 am

added to DB - PDF-4194
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