Snakes basking together

France, British isles

Re: Snakes basking together

Postby Berislav Horvatic » Thu Feb 18, 2016 1:33 pm

According to literature, with V. berus is such behaviour highly exceptional.
You must have been very lucky. And, yes, photos please, if available.
I've seen just a single photo of a climbing V. berus, while those of climbing
V. ammodytes abound.
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Re: Snakes basking together

Postby Jeroen Speybroeck » Thu Feb 18, 2016 2:26 pm

There was a shot from the UK of an adder raiding a bird's nest. Wasn't it posted here even?
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Re: Snakes basking together

Postby Berislav Horvatic » Thu Feb 18, 2016 2:39 pm

Mario Schweiger wrote:... and some more thoughts, why ground dwelling snakes (here Crotalus cerastes) climb into bushes.

Thanks, Mario, it's a valuable paper and nicely written. Unfortunately, I've found no new ideas that
we (you, me, and some others) have not already discussed. And we are none the wiser... But a nice
summary, that's for sure.
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Re: Snakes basking together

Postby Aleksandar Simovic » Thu Feb 18, 2016 3:25 pm

Unfortunately I dont have photo, he tried to escape, and I had to be fast to capture that male, regarding other photos i need to take a look, usually i dont have time to capture in situ shots there :? but i will try something this season, just one or two weeks till they emerge here, cant wait. 8-)
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Re: Snakes basking together

Postby Berislav Horvatic » Thu Feb 18, 2016 4:01 pm

Aleksandar Simovic wrote:Unfortunately I dont have photo, he tried to escape, and I had to be fast to capture that male, regarding
other photos i need to take a look, usually i dont have time to capture in situ shots there :?

So maybe you would agree with my thesis that the Balkan clade of V. berus (a.k.a. V. berus bosniensis)
are swift and rather nervous dragons which don’t give one much chance for in situ photos, unlike their
more sedate cousins (V. berus berus) from the north... Nobody in this forum has believed me yet...
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Re: Snakes basking together

Postby Aleksandar Simovic » Thu Feb 18, 2016 5:11 pm

Bero i can agree, but partially, its more from snake to snake (individualy), and what I observed by weather conditions , in a very humid cloudy, but also warm days adders are quite calm, and i can capture them really easy, they even dont try to escape.

some of the images of those days:

this beast is more then 81cm ltot, resting on some bushes
ImageVipera berus bosniensis in situ by Aleksandar Simović, on Flickr

another one
ImageVipera berus bosniensis in situ by Aleksandar Simović, on Flickr

ImageVipera berus bosniensis in situ by Aleksandar Simović, on Flickr

ImageVipera berus bosniensis in situ by Aleksandar Simović, on Flickr

all in situ
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Re: Snakes basking together

Postby Berislav Horvatic » Thu Feb 18, 2016 6:46 pm

Aleksandar Simovic wrote:Bero i can agree, but partially, its more from snake to snake (individualy), and what I observed by weather conditions , in a very humid cloudy, but also warm days adders are quite calm, and i can capture them really easy, they even dont try to escape.

Well, I accept your arguments/observations, for sure. And congratulate you on your "all in situ ". Push on.

However, just to ask you how many V. berus berus you have seen (in nature), to compare them with the
"Balkan dragons"? I have some, and have noticed the difference, that's why I ask.
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Re: Snakes basking together

Postby Niklas Ban » Fri Feb 19, 2016 2:29 pm

Berislav Horvatic wrote:
Aleksandar Simovic wrote:Unfortunately I dont have photo, he tried to escape, and I had to be fast to capture that male, regarding
other photos i need to take a look, usually i dont have time to capture in situ shots there :?

So maybe you would agree with my thesis that the Balkan clade of V. berus (a.k.a. V. berus bosniensis)
are swift and rather nervous dragons which don’t give one much chance for in situ photos, unlike their
more sedate cousins (V. berus berus) from the north... Nobody in this forum has believed me yet...


Would say this is just way to generalized.
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Re: Snakes basking together

Postby Berislav Horvatic » Fri Feb 19, 2016 11:20 pm

Niklas Ban wrote:Would say this is just way to generalized.

Everyone would subscribe to that, including me, of course, and Sale as well, with his caveat "Bero I can agree,
but partially..." That's why I asked him whether he has ever had the opportunity to COMPARE the behaviour of
the two subspecies in vivo, in nature. I'd rather wait for his reply, because it does matter. (And what is yours?)
Namely, I've had the opportunity to compare the behaviour of the two subspecies, both in Croatia, and have at
least my personal impressions, if not the "serious", "scientific" and "publishable" data.
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Re: Snakes basking together

Postby Niklas Ban » Sat Feb 20, 2016 12:21 pm

The Vipera berus bosniensis I saw behaved like the most of V. berus berus I know. If you come to close they flee, there were no remarkable disparity in the flight distance.
Yes, there are V. berus berus which are very relaxed, cause they live near high frequented paths and they doesn't care if you are close to them until you touch them (hyperbole :!: ). I don't know if there are some in "bosniensis" like this and I have way to little experience with "bosniensis".
In general the flight behaviour might be caused by habitat (have they much contact with people?!) and temperature and the personal nature of the individual.
Even my local adderpopulations have huge differences in their flight behaviour.
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