Adder in UK

France, British isles

Re: Adder in UK

Postby Will Atkins » Thu May 14, 2015 6:38 am

I think that unless the capturing and transporting process is completely incompetent then the real problem is what happens in the months and years after the animals are released in their 'perfect' new habitat. The problem is that the receptor site which is chosen must be suitable - and ideally much better than that - for adders and yet not already have a population of the species. So the obvious question is why is the species not there already? In the rare cases where translocated adders have survived for 10+ years in a new habitat it has been because there is a newly created - often post-industrial - location which had not been naturally colonised by the species. Reintroductions are problematic because it is necessary to find out why the animals went extinct in the first place and to be able to guarantee that the same fate won't happen to the reintroduced adders. A final point; even if the adders thrive for a decade or more, in the longer term there are issues over inbreeding and so it may be necessary to have a plan to top up with new alleles every few decades, as would happen in the wild with a metapopulation of adders. Unsurprisingly the average mitigation statement for translocated adders doesn't take the long view!
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Re: Adder in UK

Postby Jeroen Speybroeck » Thu May 14, 2015 6:02 pm

Will Atkins wrote:the real problem is what happens in the months and years after the animals are released in their 'perfect' new habitat.

+ 1
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Re: Adder in UK

Postby Berislav Horvatic » Thu May 14, 2015 9:22 pm

Will Atkins wrote:the real problem is what happens in the months and years after the animals are released in their 'perfect' new habitat.

I meant a really "almost perfect" one, for them (not us), no joking. Why should they fare so badly in one like that?

So the obvious question is why is the species not there already?

That crossed my mind as well. Maybe - and, hopefully (for the newcomers), if it's so good - they just haven't "found" it
or reached it - yet, so it just might happen to be both good & free... But I don't insist on that remote (?) possibility, it
would be both too good and too unlikely... but also not quite impossible, after all.
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Re: Adder in UK

Postby Will Atkins » Fri May 15, 2015 6:37 am

'I meant a really "almost perfect" one, for them (not us), no joking. Why should they fare so badly in one like that?'

- a good question, which requires proper research into post-translocation adder populations. In the UK this has not been addressed. One possibility is that adult adders are fairly resilient and can feed on small mammals, but in the UK the newborns need a supply of young Zootoca. Some receptor sites may have few (or even no) Zootoca, so the population is doomed to fail as it cannot recruit itself.
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Re: Adder in UK

Postby Jeroen Speybroeck » Fri May 15, 2015 9:35 am

Thanks for the insight, Will. It's a fascinating topic. The limited dispersal options of reptiles in our modern landscapes, characterised by habitat fragmentation, sure is not helping. I'm, however, surprised that the habitat is not protected, because you would guess it would be often "coincidently" be so (under the Habitat Directive)? I still don't get why the HD lists Triturus cristatus, Podarcis muralis, Coronella austriaca, ... but not Vipera berus. Don't get me wrong - I'm fine with the former species serving as some sort of umbrella for their habitat, but surely the same can/could be said for adder, imho.
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Re: Adder in UK

Postby Will Atkins » Fri May 15, 2015 10:59 am

thanks Jeroen, I agree completely regarding adder habitat protection. It is something that we are lobbying for in the UK before the adder becomes as rare as Ca or La are over here. I assume that we will indeed need to see the adder becoming truly rare and localised before it gains some habitat protection.

re GCN, once again the UK law is not based on proper ecology - although their habitat is theoretically protected (which usually reduces to 'remove the newts and put them into a newly created pond without proper development of the food web or long term management') it places too much emphasis on the capture of the odd individual from the development footprint rather than considering the population / metapopulation. What makes sense for an apex predator like an osprey is not transferable to a smaller and more numerous animal like a newt. Hence an ecological consultant can earn thousands for catching a single newt, which could instead have been used to dig a dozen or more new ponds within the range of the population... This makes for awful publicity in the UK where our predominantly right wing anti-nature press is very keen to run headlines such as 'forty thousand pounds to save a newt!' or 'hospital for children delayed by newts!', both of which are genuine stories from the last couple of years...
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Re: Adder in UK

Postby Jeroen Speybroeck » Fri May 15, 2015 12:16 pm

Crazy stuff...
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Re: Adder in UK

Postby Berislav Horvatic » Fri May 15, 2015 12:18 pm

Will Atkins wrote: One possibility is that adult adders are fairly resilient and can feed on small mammals, but in the UK the
newborns need a supply of young Zootoca. Some receptor sites may have few (or even no) Zootoca,
so the population is doomed to fail as it cannot recruit itself.

But in a case like that it's, by any definition (both "ours" and "theirs"), not an "almost perfect" receptor site
in the first place... It's just a wrong site to start with, and we know it (do we? - in advance?)...
Never mind, I do know it's complicated, especially in practice - too little knowledge (still) and not so many
good (and still free) places on offer, as one would wish for. Then add all the other complications that might
or might not arise, which one has or has not foreseen...
My question was rather "purely theoretical": What if one relocates animals to a really (almost) perfect site...
Roger & out.
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Re: Adder in UK

Postby Jeroen Speybroeck » Fri May 15, 2015 12:55 pm

I tend to prefer compensation in the shape of strengthening existing populations (improving habitat quality and/or expanding "habitat quantity") rather than creating new ones.
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Re: Adder in UK

Postby Berislav Horvatic » Fri May 15, 2015 1:09 pm

Jeroen Speybroeck wrote:I tend to prefer compensation in the shape of strengthening existing populations
(improving habitat quality and/or expanding "habitat quantity") rather than creating new ones.

Me too, but in this particular case, if I got it right, the burning question is "either relocate, or let die on spot",
so it seems it has nothing to do with our (general & reasonable) preferences. It seems to be an emergency.
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