muralis or liolepis

[Liam Russell]

I photographed these a few years ago in Provence. I assumed they were Podarcis muralis at the time and didn't think much of it. I was looking at them recently and started wondering if they could be liolepis... I know they can be tricky to separate but any ideas?

[Peter Oefinger]

it is difficult to judge by the pictures - depends there the pictures have been made. Liolepis occurs only at a few places in the Provence.

[Liam Russell]

it is difficult to judge by the pictures - depends there the pictures have been made. Liolepis occurs only at a few places in the Provence.

Hello Peter. The pictures were taken at Les Baux-de-Provence, about 15km northeast of Arles and about 45km inland from Saintes-Maries-de-la-Mer.This is east of the Rhone, so I guess must be muralis (should have thought about that earlier...).

Do you have any sources for sites in Provence?

[Peter Oefinger]

To be honest - I can't judge by the pictures. But as far as I know, liolepis occurs only at a few places east of Rhone river - northeast of Arles sounds unlikely to me...

[Mario Schweiger]

Liam & Peter,

I´m really not specialized in "snake food" , but looking on the map of Podarcis liolepis in Vacher, J.-P. & M. Geniez (2010): Les Reptiles de France, Belgique, Luxembourg et Suisse,
Podarcis liolepis should be distributed in the Arles area, and, nearly everywhere west of Rhone river along the Mediterranean.

distribution of Podarcis liolepis in France. Green: common, orange: occurs, red: rare

Mario

[Peter Oefinger]

According to that map, liolepis doesn't occur in the Department Bouches-du-Rhone where Les Baux is located. The Rhone river seems to be a natural barriere. In the department Drome there are only two locations of liolepis known, both located directly at the shores of Rhone.

For me, the pictures look like muralis: the flanks are significantly darker than the back. At liolepis the ground colouration of back and flanks is rather similar.

Best
Peter

[Jürgen Gebhart]

Thank you Liam, now I`m a little bit confused!
I thought that the visual difference between muralis and liolepis is big enough to see it. At first I thought both are muralis, now I think that the individual in the first two pics is a muralis.
But I`m not sure any more about the lizard in the third pic, because I pictured a lizard that looks almost the same like yours, in Northeast Spain.

same lizard, other view

I don`t saw any muralis in or around the village of Palafrugell, only liolepis.
This Lizard lives at a rockwall beside of a road. I saw there five adult Individuals and one juvenile and they look all like liolepis. At this lizard I thought, it is maybe a special marked liolepis.
Maybe Ulli can help?

[Sandra Panienka]

What would be drop dead characteristics for distinguishing between muralis and liolepis? Is there a difference in head scales?

[Liam Russell]

Thank you Liam, now I`m a little bit confused!

No problem Jürgen Just returning the favour, it was your report that got me wondering about these old pictures again.

[Peter Oefinger]

What would be drop dead characteristics for distinguishing between muralis and liolepis? Is there a difference in head scales?

No drop dead characteristics but a bundle of weak characteristics. see here: http://batrachos.free.fr/identlez.htm#murhis
Another characteristic: at liolepis light dorsolateral usually ends behind the head, at muralis it is often continued on head.

Overall appearance: muralis = bold; liolepis = slender (but difficult to see on photos.
Regards
Peter