Israel spring 2017 - tripreport online!

Israel, Jordan, Syria, Lebanon, Iraq, Iran, Turkey, Cyprus

Re: Israel spring 2017 - seeing a living fossil in the wild

Postby Bobby Bok » Thu May 11, 2017 8:31 pm

Robin Duborget wrote:Beautiful (the species and the pictures !) :)
I remember seing recently this species in some papers about extinct frogs being rediscovered, but didn't know it was "realisable" to see them in the wild ! Well done !

Robin

ps : But I disagree with the term "living fossil", neither actual species can be called "living fossil" in the light of the most recents papers about evolution.
The "living fossil" species and their ancestor are ot the same thing (there is an inevitable accumulation of mutations other the ages), even if it look like (only on the outside).


Thanks Robin, never would I have thought to see this species in the wild. One of the most special species I have seen in the wild!

As for the living fossil, I know what you are aiming at and of course you are right about that. But to me if an animal already existed millions of years ago and still exists today, only slightly changed in overall look, I would call them like that.
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Re: Israel spring 2017 - seeing a living fossil in the wild

Postby Robin Duborget » Thu May 11, 2017 9:19 pm

Bobby Bok wrote:
Robin Duborget wrote:Beautiful (the species and the pictures !) :)
I remember seing recently this species in some papers about extinct frogs being rediscovered, but didn't know it was "realisable" to see them in the wild ! Well done !

Robin

ps : But I disagree with the term "living fossil", neither actual species can be called "living fossil" in the light of the most recents papers about evolution.
The "living fossil" species and their ancestor are ot the same thing (there is an inevitable accumulation of mutations other the ages), even if it look like (only on the outside).


Thanks Robin, never would I have thought to see this species in the wild. One of the most special species I have seen in the wild!

As for the living fossil, I know what you are aiming at and of course you are right about that. But to me if an animal already existed millions of years ago and still exists today, only slightly changed in overall look, I would call them like that.


I understand your position even if I'm more cautious about the use of some "term" in teaching evolution.
In France we don't use it anymore with students because it give a false idea of evolution (risk of finalism). And for me, even if it's not obvious, it"s not the same animal, too many differences don't appear in fossil.

But we are not in the university, so let's go back to frogs ! :D
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Re: Israel spring 2017 - seeing a living fossil in the wild

Postby Daniel Kane » Thu May 11, 2017 9:38 pm

What an amazing experience that must have been, Bobby! Looking forward to seeing more from your travels in the near future :)
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Re: Israel spring 2017 - seeing a living fossil in the wild

Postby Bobby Bok » Thu May 11, 2017 9:51 pm

Although I agree with you and I teach my students the same, I still use the term. The term "A living fossil" speaks much more to the imagination for young minds, and how cool is it that there are species around who have changed so little over the course ofmillions of years? My main aim in education is to try and fascinate children, make them give a shit and not be a 100% correct all the time.
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Re: Israel spring 2017 - seeing a living fossil in the wild

Postby Ilian Velikov » Fri May 12, 2017 8:13 pm

Bobby Bok wrote: My main aim in education is to try and fascinate children, make them give a shit and not be a 100% correct all the time.

I think that's a great approach.

Oh, and an awesome frog of course!
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Re: Israel spring 2017 - seeing a living fossil in the wild

Postby Bobby Bok » Sat May 13, 2017 8:13 am

Daniel Kane wrote:What an amazing experience that must have been, Bobby! Looking forward to seeing more from your travels in the near future :)


Thanks Daniel, it was indeed a once in a lifetime experience to see this species in the wild! We hope to have our report and pictures ready maybe this week, it's all a lot to process :D

Ilian Velikov wrote:I think that's a great approach.
Oh, and an awesome frog of course!


Cheers Ilian! I love frogs which such an extensive background story, especially if they are so big and beautiful as this species ;)
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Re: Israel spring 2017 - seeing a living fossil in the wild

Postby Matthijs Hollanders » Mon May 15, 2017 11:26 pm

So about the living fossil comment...
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Re: Israel spring 2017 - seeing a living fossil in the wild

Postby Bobby Bok » Sat May 20, 2017 1:14 pm

It took a little longer than usual but the report is finally online! Two weeks in Israel and we saw many great landscapes and moreover, some great wildlife.

Here is the link to the full report: https://www.herpsafari.nl/tripreports-o ... 7-4-israel

And the link to Laura's Flickr album: https://flic.kr/s/aHskZND2xT

is184-2.jpg
Desert Horned Viper (Cerastes cerastes)

is174-2.jpg
African Softshell Turtle (Trionyx triunguis)

is104.jpg
Israeli Mole Viper (Atractaspis engaddensis)

is59.jpg
Arabian Cat Snake (Telescopus dhara)

is75-2.jpg
Ornate Mastigure (Uromastyx ornata)

is93-2.jpg
Palestinian Saw-scaled Viper (Echis coloratus)
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Re: Israel spring 2017 - seeing a living fossil in the wild

Postby Michal Szkudlarek » Sat May 20, 2017 1:32 pm

cool herpeto-pics and cool herpeto-wife!
btw i did not know that ostriches are native to Israel
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Re: Israel spring 2017 - seeing a living fossil in the wild

Postby Mario Schweiger » Sat May 20, 2017 2:55 pm

great report, family Bok - :o
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Please visit also my personal Herp-site vipersgarden.at
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