Salamandra salamandra terrestris trip

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Salamandra salamandra terrestris trip

Postby Paul Bachhausen » Thu Nov 07, 2013 3:36 pm

Hello,
in our "Salamanderwanderung" event series we made a Salamandra salamandra terrestris trip in September, "Bergisches Land", Solingen/Remscheid, Germany.
On few km, more then 200 species:
female with broad pattern:
Image
small pattern:
Image
nice male with Bufo bufo:
Image
juvenil with Bufo bufo:
Image
untypical pattern:
Image
... much more, look here:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/salamander ... 541448414/
Paul
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Re: Salamandra salamandra terrestris trip

Postby Laura Bok » Thu Nov 07, 2013 4:33 pm

Great photoseries Paul! It is very interesting to see this diversity in terrestris-patterns. Thanks for posting!
Cheers,
Laura
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Re: Salamandra salamandra terrestris trip

Postby Paul Bachhausen » Thu Nov 07, 2013 7:17 pm

Thanks Laura,

" diversity" - thats what I miss when I see all those domesticated, high yellow or red, so call "typical Solling" Salamanders in captivity!
In Nature they look quite different, like this:
http://www.salamanderseiten.de/salamand ... olling.htm

Paul
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Re: Salamandra salamandra terrestris trip

Postby Paul Bachhausen » Thu Nov 07, 2013 8:32 pm

Hello Micha,
o.k call it "selective breeding"!
If over many generations all offspring is or high yellow. in my opinion it is the beginning of a domestication!
But no matter, the result remains the same.
Paul
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Re: Salamandra salamandra terrestris trip

Postby Julius Zidorn » Fri Nov 08, 2013 12:12 am

Nice pictures Paul. Also three more cave salamanders plus Palmate Newt here yesterday
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Re: Salamandra salamandra terrestris trip

Postby Paul Bachhausen » Fri Nov 08, 2013 7:47 am

Thanks Julius,
cave salamanders are still active in Novenber, thats interesting!
Would like to see them ;)
Paul
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Re: Salamandra salamandra terrestris trip

Postby Paul Bachhausen » Fri Nov 08, 2013 1:48 pm

Hello Micha,
it was not my intention to describe a definition of domestication, but rather the result of selective breeding.
Still, I think that we have already partially the beginning of domestication here.
Salamandra was breed over many generations - F7 and more is not uncommon.
I found the following description - hope translation is understandable:

”The domestication of wild animals is due to the human selection and isolation of such individuals for breeding the kind most likely to meet the desired properties. Purpose of domestication is the use as livestock or pet.
By the onset of domestication of a species the conditions for the development of type are changed significantly. The natural evolutionary development is replaced by the selection criteria of the people by breeding. The genetic characteristics of the animals therefore change under domestication.”

Looking at our Axolotl I fear to see the result in the future.

Paul
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Re: Salamandra salamandra terrestris trip

Postby Paul Bachhausen » Fri Nov 08, 2013 2:04 pm

Perhaps you like to see some photos of an other "Salamanderwanderung"
It was in August in Mülheim, NRW, Germany.
A small, isolated but very stable Salamandra salamandra terrestris population.
Three salamander:
Image
untypical pattern:
Image
this one I also found one year before, nearly at the same position, also untypical pattern:
Image
juvenil:
Image
Have had an exemption from the ULB, so I could take this Zootoca vivipara:
Image
... not so nice, Anguis fragilis:
Image
Some more, see here:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/salamander ... 123113283/
Paul
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Re: Salamandra salamandra terrestris trip

Postby Niklas Ban » Fri Nov 08, 2013 4:51 pm

Nice to see you here Paul ;)
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Re: Salamandra salamandra terrestris trip

Postby Michal Szkudlarek » Fri Nov 08, 2013 6:09 pm

Wellcome Paul
Looking at our Axolotl I fear to see the result in the future.

What do you mean? What are the differences between wild axolotl and the domesticated ones?
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